Theo Goodman on Rare Pepe Origins and Live NFT Auctions | Unreleased NFTS.WTF Interview

NFTS-WTF Interviews
Written By David Cash

Previously unreleased: this interview is published here for the first time.Theo Goodman, Rare Pepe collector, auctioneer, and self-described "former Rare Pepe scientist," on how Rare Pepes began on Counterparty and why live auctions still matter.Interviewed by David Cash. Book David to host, moderate, or speak: https://davidcash.ca

Recorded live in April 2022 at NFC Lisbon, Theo takes David Cash back to 2016 and the Counterparty Telegram chat where Rare Pepes started. He explains how Spells of Genesis and its weekly promotional cards set the scene, how Pepe sticker packs were already part of crypto culture, and how the first Rare Pepe card was handed out in that chat. He talks about starting a sub-chat to organize the early community, a token he minted and lost the key to, why rediscovered "failed project" NFTs can gain value, and how hard trading was before dispensers or OpenSea. Theo explains how he began running live auctions in the chat, borrowing from real-world auction houses, and why live auctions create price discovery, liquidity, and the stories collectors tell for years. He also explains the Rare Pepe Foundation joke, how the Rare Pepe scientists curated submissions, the links between Rare Pepes and Curio Cards, and why he thinks collectors should learn Freewallet instead of waiting for better tools.

Watch on YouTube

Chapters

  1. 00:00 Intro: Theo Goodman, Rare Pepe collector and auctioneer
  2. 0:25 Collecting Rare Pepes today and in the Counterparty days
  3. 0:42 The 2016 Counterparty Telegram chat
  4. 1:18 Spells of Genesis and the weekly promo cards
  5. 1:52 Pepe sticker packs in crypto culture
  6. 2:49 Spitballing ideas and the first Rare Pepe card
  7. 3:26 Organizing the community in a sub-chat
  8. 4:29 Beep, a lost token, and failed-project NFTs
  9. 5:17 Why rediscovered projects can gain value
  10. 5:53 Noise music and a family of artists
  11. 6:28 Will the term NFT last?
  12. 6:54 Defending Rare Pepes on an early crypto podcast
  13. 8:24 From real-world auctions to auctions in the chat
  14. 8:51 Trading before dispensers or OpenSea
  15. 9:42 OTC trades and five-dollar Pepes
  16. 10:11 "Everybody stop": the first Rare Pepe auctions
  17. 10:30 Live auctions, price discovery, and liquidity
  18. 12:33 The stories that live auctions create
  19. 13:37 The joke foundation
  20. 15:16 Curating as a Rare Pepe scientist
  21. 17:46 A rival Ethereum project and the link to Curio Cards
  22. 20:39 The World Crypto Network story
  23. 22:23 History as investigation
  24. 22:49 How to buy Rare Pepes: Freewallet and Emblem Vault
  25. 24:30 Wallet skills as martial arts belts
  26. 25:17 Arbitrage between OpenSea and Counterparty
  27. 25:49 Where to find Theo

Speakers

  • David Cash, interviewer and editor-in-chief, NFTS.WTF
  • Theo Goodman, Rare Pepe collector and auctioneer

Key topics

  • Rare Pepe origins on Counterparty
  • Crypto culture on Telegram in 2014–2016
  • Spells of Genesis and early blockchain trading cards
  • Pepe sticker packs and meme culture
  • Lost keys and forgotten early NFTs
  • Trading on the Counterparty DEX and OTC
  • Running live NFT auctions
  • Price discovery, liquidity, and local markets
  • Storytelling and value in collecting
  • Rare Pepe scientists and curation
  • Curio Cards and early Ethereum art tokens
  • Freewallet, Emblem Vault, and buying from dispensers

In their words

"It's a real honest test of what someone's gonna pay right then." Theo Goodman

"Of course, they weren't called NFTs back then." Theo Goodman

How to cite

APA: Cash, D. (2022). Theo Goodman on Rare Pepe origins and live NFT auctions [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/nFCg1fsPMgw

Chicago: Cash, David. "Theo Goodman on Rare Pepe Origins and Live NFT Auctions." Recorded April 2022, Lisbon. YouTube video, 26:24. https://youtu.be/nFCg1fsPMgw.

About NFTS.WTF

NFTS.WTF was a Web3 culture publication and interview series edited by David Cash. It covered artists, collectors, and builders during the 2021–2022 NFT boom. It ran for two years and closed after a board decision by the NFTS DAO, which left many of its interviews unpublished.

Recording details

Recorded April 2022 at NFC Lisbon, Lisbon, Portugal. Previously unreleased. Published 2026 with chapters and captions. From 14:00, audio comes from a backup recorder.

Transcript

Machine-transcribed and reviewed. Timestamps link to the moment in the video.

[0:03] Hello everybody, welcome back to NFTS.WTF. My name is David Cash, editor-in-chief. We're here at NFC Lisbon, and I'm joined with Theo Goodman, OG Pepe, Rare Pepe, OG collector. There we go. Rare Pepe, yeah. Former Rare Pepe scientist. Incredible. Yeah, so auctioneer. And yeah, that's what I do. Amazing. So a lot of you are familiar with the Rare Pepes. I do collect them. You may have read my piece kind of explaining how to get into them now through Emblem Vault on Ethereum or Polygon, but you've been dealing with them since, you know, Counterparty, OG days. Would love to take people a step back and maybe explain how you got into that in the first place. Okay. Well, basically we were hanging out in the Counterparty, not Discord, Telegram, because Discord really was not, hadn't taken off back then. So, Telegram chat. What year was it, 2014, 15, 16?

[0:56] Well, that year was 2016. We hung out in the Counterparty Telegram chat talking a lot. Spells of Genesis was around, and Spells of Genesis has an in-game currency called Bitcrystals. And Bitcrystals used to trade on Polo and Trex, which for all you dgens know are some old school shitcoin exchanges. And they hired a PR company, and they would come in like every week with these press releases. And every week they would release like a new card, and it would be like, this is the Ethereum card. This is shitcoin number two card. This is shitcoin number three card. And it was kind of like a PR thing. We still really liked Spells of Genesis, and it was on Counterparty, but it got ridiculous because there was this guy they would send to post the PR, and he would do it like in every Telegram channel that you were in.

[1:47] And so that actually kind of triggered the sort of making. Well, also we have to say that there were already in Telegram, Telegram really took off in crypto in 2014, and there were already Pepe sticker packs before there were Rare Pepe. Yeah, in Telegram. And that's actually that was super essential because it was already part of crypto culture, these sticker packs with the Pepe's. So what happened was people already were making sticker pack, custom crypto Pepe sticker packs because there's like in 2014, 2015, because there were these stickers where, actually, I think it was more 2015, not to just be like, you know how like it's always the first ever early thing, you know, but like, but there's like a Rare Pepe, probably the famous one is, it's a Pepe, and he's at his desk of a computer, and it has like the price dumping, and it's a sad Pepe.

[2:40] You know what I mean? And I just totally co-opted that one a few times for some of my Rare Pepe cards. I just changed it around a little bit. So that was totally in the crypto scene. And so we're in that Counterparty chat. And then we just kind of like started spitballing ideas like, hey, can we fork spells of Genesis or how does it even work? And we're like, yeah, you could. It had a game part of it. We didn't, I didn't know how to do that part. And then it was like, yeah, we could do legends of shit coins or just be some funny thing. It was like totally like a random ideas. And then and then this guy, Mike comes in. He's like, I made this Rare Pepe card, join this chat. And if you post your Counterparty address and I'll give you one. And that's how it started infrastructure. And then he did that. And then I was talking to him and I was like, yeah, I want to make one. And then we made a I think actually I made the sub chat.

[3:34] I think we just called it like Rare Pepe foundation or Rare Pepe core or something kind of like as a joke, because like Bitcoin core and there was the Bitcoin foundation back then, too. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then and that was just us like that. We already knew each other kind of like trying to organize things, because as soon as he made that chat, a bunch of people joined and all went completely nuts. And they were like, I want to make one. And like, what do I do? And like, this is crazy. And like that was really because there was never that outlet. Build it and they will come. Yeah. So like, but we didn't know. No one thought of that really before, because like the supposed Genesis, they made all their cards seriously. Seriously. And they had a trading community. There were other like sub telegram chats, like just for trading. I don't know how to play the game, but I know there is a me there even.

[4:17] But they were like people collecting the rare ones and stuff back then. And but it wasn't huge. But there was like a community doing it. Good luck getting any other. Right. Exactly. So that's that's basically how it started. I will say that since Counterparty was launched in 2014, I also was, you know, always interested in it. I did mint some tokens. I minted this one token called Beep. And I wanted to back it up by one second of sound per token. So you just steal that idea to probably work right now. Maybe I'll do it again. But I lost the key to it. So I lost my what I call my failed project vintage NFT. Yeah, because that's the crazy thing. That's what I did a talk today and I talked about this so-called failed project. NFT is like, hey, look, whoa, I found this old NFT thing. It's just like a wallet I forgot.

[5:06] And I minted it because I minted the token like four years ago. A lot of people don't consider that, though, how many NFTs are sitting in wallets with missing or lost. And that was a Beep one is lost, you know, for example. But what's really funny, I was just talking and I'm going on the tangents. Just tell me is that all these like failed projects that reappear are probably worth more and will be worth more in the long term than like scam tokens and like defi scam tokens and all that. They have their like short thing. The failed project is worth nothing for three years. It's rediscovered. It's worth 10K. And then like a dollar bill that's like misprinting. Yeah. And then like in 10 years, it's worth like a million bucks. Who knows, you know, not investment advice, but it could be. And it's like we're in a really crazy world where that's the truth. So that's how I've always been interested in.

[5:55] You know, I come from noise experimental music, always been interested in music. I've always been into art. You know, all of my family is somehow like an artist or like an architect or a photographer or whatever. You know, everyone has their thing. I didn't realize that until you like grow up. You're like, well, everyone in my family is basically doing crazy, weird shit. You know what I mean? But you don't realize it when you're in the family. It's just normal. You know, so I've always been into that. So that's how I got into Rare Pepe's and NFTs. Of course, they weren't called NFTs back then, but whatever. Blockchain art. Whatever you want to call it. It'll probably actually my prediction NFT will get out. I agree. Probably like in five years, there'll be some other term, but I don't know what it is. Everything's an NFT. Yeah. It's just become, then it's just a token.

[6:44] And then you're back to the thing where everything is a token. So then it'll be some other term will come. But although NFT is kind of catching on, but we'll see. Absolutely. Yeah. Just for some people who might not be totally familiar with it. Do you want to break down some of the things that you did for Rare Pepe's? Because I know you had a bunch of titles. And you worked, you know. Sure. And for anybody who might not know, obviously our audience is well aware. But, you know, being in Rare Pepe's at that time, that's a career now, you know. It wasn't a career then. It was actually sometimes a thankless job. So, okay, yeah, I started that sub chat that was just basically like, hey, let's organize things. And I basically just became kind of like a speaker because that's what I'm good at. And I was on this YouTube podcast and it's not on YouTube anymore. But there are a lot of people that saw it from back then.

[7:39] But it was like the first one where this guy basically challenged me for an hour about like, this is not going to work. What is this? This is complete bullshit. And the other guy liked it. He was already into Rare Pepe. But he basically, and I just basically sat there for an hour calmly like going over and over. And some of the same arguments that we have now with the right click save thing. Oh, this is just like digital right DRM. And like, you know, why does this have value? And can't you just... Not what's the blockchain. I mean, it was a crypto podcast, but like, you know, did that for our... Are they Bitcoin guys? There were like no ICO guys. They like did all kinds of stuff. I did auctions in the chat back then even. And that just kind of like came about. Are they your pieces? No, no. So what happened was with the auctions is in IRL in real life, I already went to auctions and bought and sold like jewelry and watches

[8:32] and stuff like that. Send it to the process. So I know the process of like going to a real auction. You have to go early. You have to inspect the lots. What I always say, you have to inspect the lots. And then the auction starts. And once the auction starts, it's like serious business. And that's how I run my auctions too, like a real auction. But people were like... So when Real Pepe started, you have to imagine for all of you that might know, there was no Freewallet. There was only the wallet counter wallet. And you could use the DEX. The DEX only worked with token to tokens. That means no Bitcoin. You could only trade Counterparty for a Pepe or Pepe2Pepe would work. Counterparty with Bitcoin prior to... Yes. So the DEX was way harder to use than it is now. If you think it's hard now to trade Real Pepe's, you don't know anything.

[9:24] Because like it was hard. And the way you make an order in the old wallet is really funky and hard. But that was the main way to do it. There was no dispensers that didn't exist. No dispensers, no OpenSea, DEX. It's really hard to use. And the OTC. So OTC was pretty big then. Bigger. Because you just met people in chat and were like, hey, you want this? And people just openly traded in the chat like, hey, I made this one. It's verified. And now if people tried to do that, they'd be like, oh, it just came. Yeah. Yeah, now. But then they weren't worth much. It was such a small community. People were just selling for like five bucks. They were like, well, I sold this thing for 10. It was amazing. You know, it was amazing. When you see the original prices still now, even like 13 cents a dollar. Yeah, 13 cents. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then so you will be like, hey, I'll trade you that one for that one.

[10:11] And one guy's like, hey, I'm going to auction one of my ones. Another guy did. I was like, everybody stop. Message me what you want to auction. We'll do an auction tomorrow at six o'clock. And that's what happened. I started doing. Yeah, yeah. I was like, hey, we got a lot. You know, inspect a lot. It says what's up for auction. We're going to organize it. And then I started doing the auctions. That's awesome. Yeah. But fast forwarding to now. I mean, that's actually a great segue, though. Thinking of how important the auction system is, that empty space. I feel like those early days of integrations. I mean, there were so many people who are now huge artists or collectors. Sure. Who were there. Do you feel like there was some kind of a, you know, tie over or carry over? Yeah, definitely indirectly. I mean, I don't think like, oh, that's cool. Theo did auction. I'm going to do auction. Not like that, but the auction,

[10:54] still today, the live auctions are an important part of the market because they kind of bridge a weird gap between the OTC and using a platform because you still have escrow trust, but it's like a different feeling. It's like, hey, what are you going to pay right now? Now, you can't wait. You can't make an offer and you can't like, you know, jibber jabber OTC chat with me for a while. No, it's not going to work. You got to do it now. And so it's a real like honest test of what someone's going to pay right then. And then, I mean, already back then when things cost like five to 100 bucks, people would look on the DEX offers on the DEX that's really hard to use and try to figure out, oh, this is for 20. I'm going to bid, try to get it for 15 over here and do like a quick arbitrage on the DEX even back then. So it created, it creates liquidity because it's a different kind of price discovery and there's different inefficiencies going on

[11:52] with a live auction rather than the DEX rather than whatever an OTC, et cetera, et cetera. So it creates, so the more markets you have, the more local markets, so like OpenSea is a local market, Counterparty DEX is a local market, the live auction, the more localized markets you have, the more different prices you have. And then they, of course, Efficient Market Hypothesis says that the eventually that this becomes efficient, that the price is even out, but because of these uneven prices, you get liquidity moving, you get a lot of liquidity moving, everything's flowing. So the auctions definitely helped with the liquidity and it helps with the emotional FOMO to be honest. It helps because there's, because what happens at a live auction, there's a story to it. Because you're part of the experience.

[12:40] It's part of the experience. It's like, dude, dude, the CEO from Bitmex was at Theo's auction, like he outbid me and he wouldn't stop. And like I got into bidding war with this like whale, like all this dude, I was the first person in the auction. And no one was there yet. And I sniped this one for like 150 bucks. You know, it has all these stories. Which are now like normal narratives, but then it was... You can get those stories with like an eBay style auction, like at OpenSea, but it's just not as dramatic. And it doesn't create the kind of... Receiving it by email is not as exciting as that media is. Exactly. Exactly. And then people put it on Twitter and that's cool too, but it doesn't really have that storytelling vibe and all the layers of stories connected to that art or that item, like kind of add value to it overall and it kind of like creates this whole thing. So that's what I think the auctions did.

[13:28] Definitely also it just got people excited and it showed like, hey, this is a real thing that you can do. So going back to your original question, I did start this thing that was called the Real Pepe Foundation, but it was just a joke. It was never a real foundation. Don't tell anyone. It was a website for a while. No, I've had people, because I can say it with a straight face and like talk about it and stuff. And I would do talks and I'd have people come in to me like, well, where's the foundation registered at? And I'd say, oh yeah, Switzerland, you know, and something like that. There was never... Like there's a registered charity? You're like, sure. It was just the same thing. So at the beginning, you can see in series one and series two especially, a lot of the... Well, actually throughout the whole thing, you know, a lot of it is critical or in a mocking way or in a loving way too of things going on in crypto. And the world.

[14:20] And the world. Especially as you get the later seasons. There's Putin Pepes. There's a whole collection of them back then. There's Friends Pepes. Every celebrity pretty much. Exactly. Share, you know. Wojack. I did Kaiser Pepe. I mean, there's so much. I have a Charles Hopkins Pepe. So that being, that was the whole thing. So it was the bit. People don't mind. Now, no, because it doesn't exist anymore. There was the Bitcoin Foundation. So the Real Pepe Foundation was really funny. Making fun of it. Real Pepe Foundation was such a failure in the end, like almost like corrupt in a way. Because Bitcoin doesn't have a foundation. Who owns it? Nobody knows. There was no like official, there was, there were official positions for a Real Pepe science. There's no real official positions like, oh, I'm the marketing and I'm the auctioneer. Because it was fully decentralized. It was just... It's not like that.

[15:02] It was just like a chat with us. It wasn't a company. And we, there's, there's, you know, Joe ran Real Pepe Wallet. Mike ran Real Pepe, or still, still were both of them still run Real Pepe directory .com. And they were like... Thank you. I've used that. That's great. And they were like, and you know, it was like, we had to curate and we discussed it. Curate. We had to do our science to accept or reject. And you know, some of it was, and it evolved, but some of it was just like, hey, this is too edgy. I'm not going to put this on a website that I host. Like Scrilla's first, first Pepe got rejected because it's two live Pepe, like two live crew. And it was like, it had these like big asses on it. And now I think he released it under the fake rares.

[15:51] It's this really awesome part. But I remember talking to him about it and like, yeah, so that his first one got rejected and he's got, I don't know, what do you make, 20 Real Pepes then? So a lot of people got rejected for probably just too edgy. Some of them were just really bad or just copies more than copies. And some of them already are copies. And then there's the technical reasons why you have to reject it. That's a real scientific, like it's not, the asset is not locked, minted properly, not minted properly. Metadata is fucked. All those kinds of things. But you have to know what to check for to be able to do that. That's where the whole Rare Pepe scientist thing. And it was also sometimes like a good excuse, like what's taking so long? When are you going to open submissions up? Where are the scientists? Where are the devs? Actually we're just like fucking tired of having like all these submissions, like

[16:35] crazy. It was like unbelievable, like how fast they would fill up and people would be like, where is it? Where is it? I want it. I want it. I want it. Where is it? So that was kind of like some of the Rare Pepe stories. No, that's awesome. I mean, I feel like, you know, a thank you, I'm sure from the space and from, you know, it takes people, individuals in order to create infrastructure, especially in the early days of this space. Because if you want to be truly decentralized, we can rely on certain organizations, but really it relies on people. Well, that's what Fanny was saying. And Fanny's another great example. You can always check her video. It's probably next to mine. And then, you know, like not all intermediaries are bad per se. I mean, so what the Rare Pepe one, it's just, it was really made of humans and that's actually. And it was true to the web3 space. It was authentic. It was genuine.

[17:17] It was organic. It was genuine, authentic. And that's what, dude, there is like trolls. There were people that got kicked out and came back. There were people that hated the scientists, tried to like, dude, dude. Okay. So there's this, there's another, just give me an example. And all of these imperfect human stories that are like not perfect. People are off their rocker. People are nuts. People are like high, probably up for days and they're chatting and like get and quit the fucking chat. And like, are they like lose their keys and blame people. I got hacked. All this shit, all those stories add to it. So there was this guy, Jade Egg, Jade Snail. He went by different names and he might be like another person that we know now with like another character. Oh, okay. So there's, oh yeah, there's, it's kind of like in wrestling, how there's the like bad guys and the good guys or the rare fact that the community was like that too.

[18:06] There are some like shady characters that like, I don't know, they just act shady in general. It's kind of like the way that they do everything. And anyway, they made this project, fucking always forget the fucking name. But what it was is it was on Ethereum. They did have a token and it traded on Ether Delta, which is the first decks on Ether. And their idea was, it was called rare, the token actually. And what the idea was, the first idea was, we're going to do, they were called NFTs. We're going to do like art tokens on Ethereum, we're going to put it on IPFS, which back then was like, wow. And then they had pictures of the Rare Pepe's though on their website and they were, what they wanted people to do is burn their Counterparty, Rare Pepe's and put them on Ethereum. And we took that as like an attack and I really was like, fuck this dude, ban ban ban all these people.

[19:02] No, no, you cannot talk, you cannot invite people to your little chat and like, no, fuck off. That's like an attack on our thing. And like, let me like, let me like do some like gorilla and like make some fake accounts and go on their chat and like totally like cause chaos and like I did all that, you know? But what's so funny is Jade Smith, snail or whatever the hell is like real name is. He was somehow friends with Rhett and Rhett is the developer of Curio cards. And actually I have it in telegram where I'm like, hey, are you guys like working together? And he's like, yeah, yeah. Jade showed Rhett the contract so he could do Curio cards. So isn't that a funny like thing? The whole connection from like Rare Pepe. So that's what people don't realize. The whole connection from like Rare Pepe to Ethereum art tokens is like not, it's totally connected. Like it's not just like, oh, by chance, crypto kitties came.

[19:54] No, no, it's like completely connected. It's a lot at that time it was like a lot of the same people just trying to figure shit out. Of course, they were not 721s or like some random other crazy, whatever kind of things that are not technically NFTs, but whatever. You know, it's just anyway, it's just like not even it's not even on Bitcoin. It's on Counterparty. How enthusiastic I am about telling the stories. You can imagine like how the day to day, some of the days were crazy, like full of like people doing all this stuff. So I think all these stories and probably that's why Curio cards is worth something because like we made, we, we totally trolled them. It was like, oh yeah, I'm going to go collect the berries. It's like an apple. Great. You know? It's like what the hell? Like nuts. Oh yeah. Cause that's the other Curio card. Okay. There's, it's even more interconnected. Let me tell the story because I told it today during my talk.

[20:43] So what it is is I was on World Crypto Network for a long time. World Crypto Network is the YouTube channel of Thomas Hunt, MadBitcoins. And we did a show every Friday called the Bitcoin Group, which is like a talk panel right like with like three to five people. We just like go through the week's topics and cover them. And then when Rare Pepe started, every time that they would ask me a question, I would answer the question, I would relate it back to how Rare Pepe solves it. You know, it was kind of kind of like how Bitcoin solves this, but it was like Rare Pepe solves it. So it would be like, what do you think about Coinbase adding Litecoin for the first time? Like, well actually, uh, I'm sure that they'll become a shitcoin exchange. And they did. But you know, as long as they add Pepe cash, then everything will be fine. As soon as they add Pepe cash, then the world will see the true utility in

[21:32] blockchain technology. And I would answer the questions like that. And what happened was, um, I probably did it for like one or two months. And then Thomas was like, you cannot talk about Rare Pepe anymore on the show. It's too weird. Cause like that was, it's the whole Bitcoin Maximus like, I don't know. They'd be sending hella hate comments. And then what happens? He releases fucking Curio cards. So I'm like, what the hell? You know, like Thomas, I love you. But you know, that was kind of weird. And so I don't know. It's just a funny, like, I love this story because I love Curio cards, Pepes, and spells of Genesis. I was just like, it's totally cool. Everything is fine. It's just a cool little story. Yeah. And like back then, of course there were some days of drama and stuff, but it's just funny. It's history now. It's history now. It's, it's fun. It's a cool little, but it just shows all these like weird links that are part of

[22:22] history. And, um, like I said today, history comes from the Greek and it means not just like a time in the past. It means like, you know, investigation, um, and making history, not just like participant, like I'm here, like I got a soccer trophy for participation. Right. You see what I mean? So that's what we have to do. That's my like pitch. We have to be critical. We have to do the hard critical things. And, um, well, somebody has to, that's what, so if you want to get Rare Pepes, um, emblem faults. Cool. That's exactly what I wanted to end with. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about it before. I want to encourage people actually just to go ahead and get Freewallet. People also are like, oh, this is great. The UX is awful. Okay. Just chill with the UX shit. I know that you're just used to like a mask from an open seat.

[23:11] Like, okay, just, just, just imagine some fancy UI. Just another wallet has a key you save. It's the same. Yeah. And you, you once now, okay, you don't want to, and you can get some Bitcoin and buy some Pep. You can buy some Pepe's from a dispenser, or you could just buy an emblem fall and like actually go through the process of getting the Pepe from the Emblem Vault to the Freewallet. Why should you do that? Because once you, you are, the reason, um, now I know what to do. Sorry. Okay. Check. This is my, this is my, uh, price tip actually. So pay attention. Um, the reason a Rare Pepe is on a lot of the old stuff for undervalued is because of the friction. The one reason the friction to get these things, as you know, is high. So what I was saying is if you just go ahead and learn a Counterparty wallet by Freewallet, the easiest, you're going to be way ahead of all the plebs.

[24:06] So when the masses do come, they're going to be, you know, using emblem, they're going to be on OpenSea, right? And you're going to be able to buy, um, buy and sell Pepe's, um, on dispensers, on the decks, right? You're just going to be way ahead. And, uh, for long-term security, I mean, we could go into like some technical things, but in general, you're going to want to be able to do both emblem. And so it's kind of like, um, I look at it, it's kind of like, uh, martial art belts. Right. So, you know, like, are you like a white belt, uh, NFT trader? Like I know how MetaMask can FOMO OpenSea. That's like white belt. You know what I mean? And like, you know, you need to get to the black belt where you're like, okay, I can do like, I mastered like all of the wallets. I'm on XCP exchange. I'm good. Like your counterpart and like I can FOMO avalanche and like, and like arbitrage Cardano or like, I don't know, whatever the fuck all at the same time,

[24:57] you know, that's like, you know, next level. So go ahead and learn that. Don't complain. Like it's shitty UI. Just like learn the shit. It's always going to be shitty UI. Yeah. That's how crypto is. And so if it has also, if it has shitty UI, that means get in now because once it gets better, everybody else is not going to understand it. And then the good UI is too late. And also worth mentioning, you know, if you look on, like you can, you can do a little bit of arbitrage, you can look on OpenSea and you can look on, you know, Emblem Vault or, you know, look on actually on Counterparty. And a lot of times, every once in a while, you know, something will be cheaper on OpenSea, but generally speaking, it's usually at least a little bit cheaper if you buy it on Counterparty, even now. It's a little bit cheaper. Yeah. Well, it's just the fees. It's like the efficient market hypothesis where, you

[25:37] know, the price is even out to an efficient number. And that's like the fees built into OpenSea versus the on chain fees of the, using the decks. That's basically reflected. Awesome. No, this is, this is such a pleasure. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate you taking the time. Where can people find you if they want to look into you further? Sure. Sure. You can find me on Twitter. Thio G double underscore. Some people read it. Thio G. Thio G. T G. Some say too good. You can find me on Instagram. Thio Goodman. One, two, three, four. And you can find me in real life at a conference near you. Thank you so much, Thio. Thank you. Thank you everybody for watching. As always, this is NFTS.WTF signing off at NFC Lisbon. Thanks so much.

David Cash https://www.davidcash.ca