Rebecca Rose, a hologram artist, on how holograms give NFTs a physical presence and why she pairs her work with prism pyramids. She also explains how she protects her privacy at Web3 events.
Interviewed by David Cash. Book David to host, moderate, or speak: https://davidcash.ca
Recorded in February 2022 at ETHDenver in Denver, Rebecca tells David Cash how the ballroom ghosts of Disney's Haunted Mansion sparked her interest, and how she moved from analog and digital collage to wearable sculpture cast in precious metals. In 2015 she began sending collectors quad-split holographic videos with a prism pyramid so they could try on a piece virtually, and minting those works as NFTs felt like a natural next step. They cover which drops come with a pyramid, why she expects collectors to want more than flat screens, and her case for doing your own research before handing over personal data.
Chapters
- 00:00 Intro: Rebecca Rose, hologram artist
- 1:15 How it started: the Haunted Mansion ballroom
- 1:57 From analog collage to digital collage
- 2:23 Wearable sculptural collage
- 2:45 2015: holograms as a virtual try-on
- 4:47 The pandemic and her first NFTs
- 5:39 A natural move to the blockchain
- 6:46 Which NFTs come with a prism pyramid
- 8:12 Collector privacy and claiming the pyramid
- 10:35 Holograms beyond flat screens
- 12:58 Mixed reality and anamorphic holograms
- 14:43 No KYC: privacy at the registration line
- 17:42 Where to find her work
- 19:23 Thanks and sign-off
Speakers
- David Cash, interviewer and editor-in-chief, NFTS.WTF
- Rebecca Rose, hologram artist
Key topics
- The Haunted Mansion ballroom as early inspiration
- From analog collage to digital collage
- Wearable sculptural collage cast in precious metals
- Holograms as a virtual try-on for collectors
- Quad-split and single-plane holographic NFTs
- Prism pyramids paired with NFTs
- Collector privacy and optional shipping
- Moving NFTs beyond flat screens
- Anamorphic holograms and mixed reality
- Data privacy and KYC at conferences
- Minting on Ethereum and Solana
In their words
"There's going to be a time where we won't tolerate that anymore and we're going to want something more." Rebecca Rose
"Moral of the story, do your own research." Rebecca Rose
How to cite
APA: Cash, D. (2022). Rebecca Rose on holographic NFTs and taking digital art off the screen [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/_3LuD02QF-Q
Chicago: Cash, David. "Rebecca Rose on Holographic NFTs and Taking Digital Art Off the Screen." Recorded February 2022, Denver. YouTube video, 19:49. https://youtu.be/_3LuD02QF-Q.
About NFTS.WTF
NFTS.WTF was a Web3 culture publication and interview series edited by David Cash. It covered artists, collectors, and builders during the 2021–2022 NFT boom. It ran for two years and closed after a board decision by the NFTS DAO, which left many of its interviews unpublished.
More interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@davidcash888/playlists
Recording details
Recorded February 2022 at ETHDenver 2022 (BUIDLWeek), Denver, Colorado. Previously unreleased. First published here, 2026.
Transcript
Machine-transcribed and reviewed. Timestamps link to the moment in the video.
[0:18] WTF, my name is David Cash, editor-in-chief. And today I'm joined with another one of my favorite artists, Ms. Rebecca Rose. How are you doing today? Welcome to Denver. Oh my goodness! Another city. Thank you. Yeah, we've been following each other around the country. A few. Yeah, a few. Yeah, very exciting. I'm your shadow. Maybe I'm your shadow. New York, LA, Miami, so many exciting things. And of course you're also activating here in Denver. I'm doing what you do best. Hologram is a beautiful artwork that fit within this, you know, NFT sphere that we all live in now. So we'd love to take a couple steps back. I'm sure that people at home want to know a little bit about you and what you do. Definitely want to talk a little bit about holograms today because obviously, you know, it's a space that's been around for a while and not a lot of people understand it or know about it. So I feel like it's really important for people, especially when we're going further, going into VR, going into AR, going into like mixed reality. We should at least take a step back and actually understand holograms because they're practical for the best part.
[1:10] Yes, absolutely. It's not a physical thing happening but it's more tangible than a lot of these digital, you know, manifestations. So let's take a first step. I would love to hear a little bit about your journey as an artist, like where you started, maybe when you first discovered holograms and then if you want, we can follow up with that NFT question but I can ask you that afterwards. Oh my gosh. How did the whole art thing start and most importantly for me, how did the hologram thing start? Where did you first find the interest to do holograms? So believe it or not, imagine like a six-year-old me going to Disney World on the Haunted Mansion ride and coming across the ballroom scene, right? It's iconic. Everybody knows it, right? It all makes sense. And seeing like the holographic like ghosts dancing among the ballroom, I was like, what is this and how can I make that? How can I start making them? So fast forward to like the mid-90s. I'm really aging myself by saying that but I started doing analog collage with paper and scissors and glue and then in 1998, I started doing digital collage like on really, really junky computers that were probably like this big.
[2:16] Yeah, I think I was using like Carrell Painter at the time. Might as well be Kittex. Oh my gosh. And then in the early 2000s, the collage work ended up being more sculptural and so I was doing like sculptural collage that was wearable as well and I did that for 18 years but it was in 2015 when I started experimenting with like integrating holograms with my collage work. What was the first hologram you did at Pepper's Ghost or what did you first start? Yeah, so it was actually a solution to a problem that I found with my physical sculptural collages. Since they were wearable collages, which it's interesting that wearables are obviously like such a big thing in the metaverse, like the physical wearables that I was doing were giant collages that would be like, you know, you'd put it on your finger and they would be like three, yeah, like they'd be huge and they were all cast in precious metals like sterling silver or gold or, you know, sometimes bronze and there were collectors across the globe that wanted to, you know, they were interested in buying them but since it's wearable, a lot of people wanted to try it on first to help inform whether or not they wanted to, you know, follow through with the purchase and rather than me sending, you know, precious metals like across the globe and then either hoping they either bought it or, you know, entrusting them to return it. I was like, well, how can I kind of create that same like trying on experience but do it virtually?
[3:52] And I'm like, let's turn it into holograms. So I would make the quad split holographic MP4s of the sculptural like collages, the wearables, and I would send the collector, this was in 2015, I would send the collector the MP4 as well as a holographic pyramid that was four sided at like a 45 degree angle. That way they could, you know, essentially put the device on top, play the MP4 and then shove their hand up inside the pyramid and see what the holographic exactly and it, you know, ended up saving me a lot of risk in the long run. And it was, it kind of like kickstarted this whole concept of, you know, that like digi fizzy, even before knowing what NFTs, yeah, even before knowing what NFTs were, like it just all started to come together.
[4:47] And then, of course, when COVID hit, like things changed and I started to rethink my practice. And last year, I think that's when we met, like February of last year, God, it's been a year already, happy anniversary. And it was, it was around that time where, you know, I started really, really diving into what NFTs are and what, you know, the utility they could offer. And I'm like, wait a second, I've been making, you know, MP4s of these works and having that physical component of the, of the prison pyramid, like as, like a pairing with the NFT, you know, brings that digital asset into the physical space. So yeah, I started minting those. So that'll make sense. Now let's bring in the NFT component.
[5:42] So obviously you were, you know, this all happened to most of us during the pandemic, you know, as you were mentioning, we all got online, we all got on like live audio apps, we all started talking about this and NFTs were starting to grow. And we were the ones, we were some of the ones talking about it, right? Was it a native switch for you when you, not a native switch, was it a native, was it a native transition for you? Going from like just tangible holograms to Oh, I can mint this, you know, very unique art practice on the blockchain and maybe find another way to monetize what you're doing? Like what was the thought process for you when that all started? It was, it did seem very seamless, to be honest, because like, you know, having, having made these, these digital videos of my sculptural practice, like my sculptural work for, you know, since 2015, I'm like, wait a second, you know, I've been making the digital component of the artworks for so long, like it makes sense to put them on the blockchain. You're already doing digital physics, you're already doing the digital physics. Yeah. Yeah. So of course, like getting over the initial hurdles and obstacles of like creating a metamask and wrapping your head around like the space, you know, from the get go was, was a challenge, but I just dove right in and started minting and here we are. That's awesome.
[6:45] Yeah. I want to, I the product maybe for somebody who is either interested in your work or just interested in how this works in general. I mean, you must get this a lot as well. But I know that one of the questions I get all of the time is, especially people who are working in, you know, fashion or, you know, traditional art, they're like, how do I include a physical component with my digital work? And it's not that complicated, once you understand it and you understand the idea of like a gated link or something. But I'm curious what you do, because it sounds like you do sometimes, you know, attach one of these physical pyramids to the digital work. Do you include one of the pyramids with every NFT you sell or is it depending on the, on the drop? It depends. It depends on the drop. How do you decide? So like the quad split holographic format, NFTs definitely come with one. The single plain NFTs, which are optimized for like, say, portal holographic units, which right now are only available in the seven foot size telephone box ones, but, but they're actually building tabletop sized units. So those single plain NFTs are already optimized for those dimensions.
[7:44] And you're not an extra 10 grand, but, but the, but the quad split ones definitely come with them. And it's interesting because, sorry, do you build them? I do. You make them yourself? Well, I build the larger ones. But the smaller ones I actually get from a company in Northern Ireland sponsored me. Yeah. So, so they're actually like created there and then they send them to me and then I include them with. Yeah. But sometimes the collectors, the primary collectors don't want to give away their like personal shipping info, which I totally understand. So it's up to them. Send to PO Box or something. Yeah. Corporate address. Yeah. So like, I always give them the option. Like it's there if you want to send it to a Western Union. Carrier fidget. Exactly. Yeah. So but the pyramid does come or it does come with the NFT like for the primary collector. And how do you go about that process? Like you let them claim it if they want. Do you offer it to everybody?
[8:45] Yeah. If they want. It's available for, you know, the collectors of the quad split holographic pyramids. But like I said, like some of them want to stay anonymous. So they don't claim it, which is totally up to them. No, I think that's a it's a really smart mentality. And I'm happy that, you know, I was curious how you were going about it, because I think it's something that a lot of people think about. And I think it's really important in this space to give options. Because not to tell people what to do, because, you know, and you really are a proponent of this, you know, that we're all sovereign beings. We all have complete, you know, control our data, data sovereignty, all of that. So it's important to, you know, if they want to, if they want to give their Twitter handle in there, or like put a dot e with their name and you want to be able to find them. Cool. If not, no pressure. And they might already have a holographic prison pyramid too. Or if they bought one from you in the past. Yeah. Because like once you have them, I mean, you can, as as Quads blot holographic format, NFTs become more popular once artists realize that, oh my gosh, you know, this could be like the next big leap in the NFT space.
[9:44] Like once people start making more of those with their work, like if a collector already has a prison pyramid, they could just, you know, purchase NFTs by multiple artists in these in these formats and then have it. No, it's almost like bringing these experiences into your home and like AR has been one way of that. But there isn't there isn't really a tangible aspect to AR. Right. There, I mean, I know that certain apps are working on it. A lot of virtual fashion companies are working on it. But there still is not so much of a, like I own this, you know, mentality with with an AR filter, you know, because it'll be through some third party app like Snapchat or Instagram or even even just a web app. Like, you know, it's still not yours. You know, it's just kind of web to ownership. Yeah, you're totally right. Like living with that work, like in a physical space and the NFT almost becomes like sculptural in that way. It does. Yeah. I mean, like in the way that we can perceive it, I mean perceptions reality. So far as we can see it, it's 3D, even though it's an illusion. Yeah. I'm curious, because I know you a little talk a little bit about the the larger form and I know you're experimenting with mediums and like you've been probably one of the people like I don't know very I don't know anybody if very many people who are doing holograms in the NFT space right now. There are very few of us.
[10:48] What are your thoughts about what's happening now? Maybe what's next? I mean, you know, I've seen I've seen people print things on like lenticular like, you know, like glass and things where things can move slightly and now they're trying to bring some of that into these larger boxes. And there's so much different stuff happening. And I really see people taking, you know, to fit into it. Actually, I haven't seen holograms at events other than like really, really niche art events. Yeah. Until this year, really, like this year, last year, you know, like Art Basel, let's say, or like maybe NFT NYC. But that was a lot of you. But there are a few other people finally like, you know, bringing these, especially those large boxes you were talking about to life. Yeah. So what do you think is happening now that you're really excited about it? What's next? So it's interesting because after I spoke about that at NFT NYC and I basically like told everybody the blueprint on how to how to do this, because I really do think that that this is there's going to be a time where where when we look at NFTs on flat device screens, where that that won't be enough for us. Like there's going to be a time where we won't tolerate that anymore and we're going to want something more. So it actually lifted off of a flat device screen in a way and to engage in it in a way that we haven't before. That's going to be where we're going next.
[11:57] And so when I was talking about this at NFT NYC and giving everybody the blueprint on how to like think about their own body of work in like a holographic format way. It was funny because like at Miami Beach, like a couple of weeks later, we saw the chromie squiggle at as a hologram. And I'm like, yes, no, no. But I was I was my heart was there because I was like, oh my God, they listened to somebody listened. But yeah, like I've been showing my holograms, you know, since 2015 when I started doing them. Of course, they weren't like NFTs back then. But like the more the more I speak with artists and developers and collectors about like this next step forward, the more people like it clicks with them. Like they they understand like looking at a flat device screen, looking at their phone like that.
[12:53] It's so limiting and it's so, you know, two dimensional and we deserve more. Also, I do think it's an interesting conversation when you think about the future of this space and the future of AR. Once these kinds of worlds start to blend together, once we have Google Glasses and things like that, it won't be so strange to people to see an image coming out of a screen, you know, because it'll be something that happens all the time. You'll have to pick something up out of your screen and put it somewhere else. You know, a more normal thing, like this more mixed reality life. And I definitely think, you know, tangible holograms like the ones you're doing are are, you know, the not to say tangible twice, but it's what's allowing us to understand what that might look like, you know, in the very near future. And it's a two way road like as much as we we put ourselves into the digital space, that two way road exists. So we've got to bring that digital like into the physical as well. So and this is a way to do it. And there's like with the quad split and then the single plane, there's also a way to do like anamorphically distorted NFTs that kind of like are compatible with the circumference of a cylindrical shape.
[13:51] And that way you could have the hologram appear like and then walk around it and round and see it without any corners or without any like hard obstructions. That's super cool. I know. I've seen people experiment with that, but I've never seen that IRL. So yeah, and it's yeah, the future is going to come out. And I can't wait to see them happening larger and larger scale. I mean, we've seen something like obviously everybody knows the two poc hologram, but you know, that was that was a pepper's ghost. And a single plane, a single plane. Yeah. So I mean, I think we're going to see even more advanced advanced examples, you know, in the coming years and months. So I think it's super exciting. And also worth mentioning, I'm going to make sure just for anybody reading this versus watching this, or if you're watching this, go to the article below. I'm going to link Rebecca's NFT NYC talk so that you can understand what she's talking about when she's giving you the blueprint, the blueprint to hologram. So you as well can have access to that. It's not proprietary. Right. Exactly. Open source. That's what the that's what the space is all about.
[14:42] And then I wanted to give you a second, because I mean, I don't want to I don't want to shame each other. We love each other. But I just wanted to hear like the one little spiel you gave me right before this interview. I feel like it is reflective of you and your mentality of the space and a lot of people in the space would appreciate it. So are you OK going on camera saying what you did when you came into the line? Oh, my gosh, remind me. You registered when you registered with a different name because you don't want to KYC yourself. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I can say it. So well, like, I guess I shouldn't say like the company names. But yeah, like, of course, like privacy is is super important to me. And I think as we move forward, we've got to kind of like take that, like switch over into not being so readily willing to give our privacy and data away. And yeah, like after a five hour wait for me yesterday, I'm registering to get this beauty. They, you know, of course, as you got up closer to the check in, they handed everybody a card for the COVID test, which I totally understand for safety.
[15:47] But the amount of information and data that they wanted to extract from everyone was a huge red flag because it just seemed so intrusive. So me being the admittedly like a self proclaimed worry wart, you know, I did a little bit of research. I stepped to the side and I, you know, kind of weighed the pros and cons of like, well, you know, I've wasted five hours if I just step out of line. But then, you know, that could be the hook where they expect people to like readily give away their information because of the time they've invested to get these things. So I, you know, a step back and I took five minutes and I did a little research on the said company, you know, whether or not they sell info and then I kind of like watched, you know, what the next steps were.
[16:39] And I noticed that there was no verification process. So the fact that, you know, essentially in an arbitrary way, like you could just write any information and it, yeah, and it didn't have to necessarily reflect your identity at all and, you know, still be able to register. That's the route I took because otherwise you've got a third party vendor that, you know, comes into a conference and is literally scraping, you know, what tens of thousands of people are here this week, scraping all this personal data, you know, from people who are just, you know, the moral of the story, do your own research. Yes. And, you know, keep your privacy held close and always think, you know, outside the box.
[17:33] Don't trust verify no KYC. No KYC 2022. This is where we're at. This is where we're at. Rebecca, it's always a pleasure. We're going to hang out this week. One last thing I want to leave the folks with watching at home. I know you're doing so many different drops. You're always doing a million things. You're on super rare. I believe you're on known origin. You're on foundation. You're on a whole bunch of different platforms. What do you have going on right now and where can people check out your work if they're interested in this hologram world that you're building for yourself? Oh, my goodness. Thank you. My goodness. Yes, I'm on super rare. A lot of my single plane holograms are on super rare. Known origin and foundation have the quad split holographic format. NFTs are on foundation and known origin. Yeah, I curate for makers place. I have still and motion images on OpenSea. And then I started minting on Solana. Cool. And oh my gosh. I love Solana.
[18:23] Solana. Yeah. The future. It is. It really is. I found a family and a community there. And so. Here in 2.0. Yeah. I thought Solana. Watch out for Taliq. Yeah, we can't say no. We're doing 10 birds with 1. Right? We do love Solana. We do love Solana. But I'm also on exchange.art and Holoplex on Solana too. So yeah. Yeah. And then I've got exhibitions coming up for the rest of this year and of course conferences to attend and yeah, dinners to go to. Of course. No, awesome. I mean, I love your practice. I love the work you put out. And I mean, on top of just being an amazing artist, you're also such a great force in the space. You know, always supporting others, bringing others in, curating. I mean, it's not easy. I think curators don't, you know, it seems like an easy job from the outside, but it's a lot of coordinating and wrangling. And you know, as artists, we understand how difficult artists are. So they're not easy to wrangle whatsoever.
[19:17] But you're doing the Lord's work out here. You know, we're pushing the block here and space forward and you're definitely one of the people, you know, making that happen. So thank you so much for taking the time today. Thank you, David. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. All of your links will be down below at the bottom of the article. If anybody's watching this, just scroll down to the bottom if you want to check out Rebecca. Once again, my name is David Cash. We're here for NFTS at WTF. Here live in East Denver. And yeah, thanks so much for watching. We'll see you in the next one.