Olive Allen on Art Without Gravity | NFTS.WTF Interview

NFTS-WTF Interviews
Written By David Cash

Olive Allen says she was in NFTs from early 2018, back when they were just the ERC-721 standard, and explains and why in the metaverse "there is no gravity."Interviewed by David Cash. Book David to host, moderate, or speak: https://davidcash.ca

Olive Allen is a New York-based artist working across painting, 3D, AR, and NFTs. Recorded poolside in November 2021 during NFT.NYC 2021, her third NFT.NYC, she tells David Cash how she came to the space in early 2018, how the event grew from about 200 people to thousands, and what it meant to finally meet The Sandbox team and her collectors in person. They talk about showing work in both the metaverse and physical galleries, making art without the limits of a canvas, the 3D ads taking over Times Square that week, and what to expect from Art Basel Miami.

Watch on YouTube

Chapters

  1. 00:00 Intro poolside at NFT.NYC 2021
  2. 0:51 In the space since 2018, before NFTs had a name
  3. 1:28 Painting in New York and betting on art and tech
  4. 2:28 NFT.NYC grows from 200 attendees to thousands
  5. 3:26 Art beyond the hype
  6. 4:51 Meeting The Sandbox team and collectors IRL
  7. 7:30 Showing work in New York this week
  8. 8:31 Art that lives in the metaverse and IRL
  9. 10:20 "There is no gravity": making art in 3D
  10. 11:30 Sculpture, AR, and a spring 2022 mixed media show
  11. 12:46 3D ads in Times Square and better display frames
  12. 14:49 Art Basel Miami and the energy at NFT.NYC

Speakers

  • David Cash, interviewer and editor-in-chief, NFTS.WTF
  • Olive Allen, artist

Key topics

  • Early NFTs and the ERC-721 token standard in 2018
  • How NFT.NYC grew from its first edition to 2021
  • Building an art experience inside The Sandbox
  • Meeting collectors and collaborators in person after the pandemic
  • Showing work in the metaverse and in physical galleries
  • Provenance and preservation of digital art on the blockchain
  • 3D and AR as tools for work a canvas can't hold
  • Digital display frames and Times Square billboards
  • Art Basel Miami 2021 and the NFT event circuit

In their words

"I feel like the work should exist in both worlds. Why not?" Olive Allen

"In the metaverse, everything's possible. There is no gravity." Olive Allen

How to cite

APA: Cash, D. (2021). Olive Allen on art without gravity [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/NloCynYObd4

Chicago: Cash, David. "Olive Allen on Art Without Gravity." Recorded November 2021, New York. YouTube video, 18:17. https://youtu.be/NloCynYObd4.

About NFTS.WTF

NFTS.WTF was a Web3 culture publication and interview series edited by David Cash. It covered artists, collectors, and builders during the 2021–2022 NFT boom. It ran for two years and closed after a board decision by the NFTS DAO, which left many of its interviews unpublished.

More interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@davidcash888/playlists

Recording details

Recorded November 2021 at NFT.NYC 2021, New York. Original release: NFTS.WTF. This edition: archival re-release with chapters and captions, 2026.

Transcript

Machine-transcribed and reviewed. Timestamps link to the moment in the video.

[0:17] We are here in New York City for NFT.NYC. My name is David Cash, editor-in-chief of NFTS.WTF, and I'm here with Olive Allen. Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you? Well, hi. Thanks for having me. I'm great. What a week. What a week. Still hanging in there. Day four. I don't know how we're doing it. I'm barely, barely. But hey, I mean, I love NFTs. It's just like, it's a drive for me. Absolutely. Culture. Community. Community. It's all about the community. Absolutely, absolutely. You've been in this space forever. Tell people how things started for you, and then we can maybe talk about how exciting it is to be here with all of us, actually in person for once. Oh, my God. Yes. That's my third NFT.NYC, actually. So you've been there since the first one? Oh, yeah. Wow. Yes, it's been a minute. I've been in the space since its inception, pretty much. 2018, early 2018. Yes, when I heard about NFT. No, I mean, they were not called NFTs, obviously.

[1:11] ERC721, Ethereum contract standard. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. That really does make sense, and I feel like there is a future. I didn't think about art immediately. I was like, okay, gaming. Okay, it's a trillion dollar opportunity in the street, and I'll have to get in. I mean, I was an artist at the time. I was making paintings. I had a moderate amount of success. I was very young. I was starting out in New York, but I always wanted to explore what the future holds, and I believe that technology is the future, combining art and tech. Yeah, it's going to be something that will be relevant of our times, and I'm wanting to learn more, so I just dove deep into all of this, and I've just learned my entry point, something I really, truly believed in, like, tech-wise, and something I wanted to explore more. So, yeah, and here I am. And here we are. Four years later, how long has it been? What

[2:10] year is it? Something like that, yeah. Where are we? I don't know. 2021, whatever. Three years later. Yeah, super exciting. And, I mean, especially for you, now that you've been to a couple of these events, one of my panellists here, he said he's been to the past few, and, like, last year, one venue, now five, and we can barely keep up with all the things going on. How has that been for you going last year and now seeing this year being such a boom? I mean, crazy. Like, the first NFT I received, there were, like, 200 people. Like, the second one... Because nobody had an NFT. Nobody knew what they had. Yeah, literally, only speakers. No, no, no. The second one, 500 people, and now 5 ,000 officially. 10 ,000 people are here in New York right now for this. It's insane. Yeah, right? And I feel like new ones are joining every day, but they're like, oh, what is NFT? Why? What's the hype? Like, I want to get in. I feel like right now it's, like, 20 ,000. I think our

[2:58] community has probably onboarded another at least 10 ,000 or 20 ,000 people, just like cab drivers and waiters, like, this week. Yeah, I know, like Uber drivers, like, yeah. What are you guys doing here? What? Like, tell me more about the coin and the opportunity to buy a new NFT. What crypto should I buy? It's a dojo, like, what is it? Uniswap, like, holy fuck, like, oh my god. No, no, no, for sure, I guarantee you, it's going to be like, yeah. I'm looking forward to next year. It's going to be, I don't even know what. Oh my god, yes, yeah. So we met through an art show. You're obviously doing a ton of different stuff. You're curating into a whole bunch of different exhibits. Do you want to tell the people, I know you started in fine art, but you want to tell people maybe about your journey, doing more 3D, and now recontextualizing that in a gallery setting? Not to go too deep, but it's super cool. Yeah, I feel like I always created in that

[3:46] context of a fine art world. Yeah, absolutely. Even though I'm very deep in the space, but I still, I love art. It's all because of the art. That's what we're here for. We're here for. At least, that's the idea, definitely. Yeah, I know there's hype in this place, in this space, a lot of things are going on, but art is art. Art is something that would stay after the hype dies, and it's an exciting moment in time. NFT actually opens so many opportunities for digital artists and other creators, like musicians, you name it, and it's just incredible to see it happening. It's history in the making. Yeah, and fine art is just one aspect of it, and it just so happened that I dwell in the fine art world a little bit, too. Absolutely. So I know you're based in New York, and you've been to a few of these NFT NYCs, but I think so many people are now finally coming together here for the first time. I

[4:45] mean, we're meeting physically for the first time. True. So many people physically for the first time. Is there anything that happened this week that for you was very cool, like somebody you've never been able to meet, or a company you've worked with who you finally actually get to meet the people behind it? Actually, it's true there are so many of those moments, but one that, the notable one, The Sunbox. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I started working with them. I created an art experience within The Sunbox game early, early on, commemorating Black Lives Matter movement and et cetera. I created the whole experience, like minigame, and this week I got to meet them in person and celebrate their success. They came such a long way, and now they're, I don't know, a billion, trillion dollar company at this point. I mean, it is the Matterworks. And now it's, yeah. Especially since the Meta announcement. I mean, oh my God, everything's just completely blown up. I

[5:35] know, I mean, it's the future, I knew that, but yeah, and now it's additional. Everybody knows, right? Every investment banker be like, oh bro, I heard about that, Meta. It's like, Metaverse, bro, you heard? Like, we gotta like, learn, oh my God, You got so many emails, like what do you think about Meta? I'm like, I'm not gonna email you. Yeah, let me tell you right now, like no, no, no. I mean, Metaverse, of course, like we all believe in that. No, no. No, it's so cool. I mean, it's mainstream. Taking people from a Zoom call and bringing them in person is like a totally unique experience, so it's really nice. Like, IRL is unique, it's rare nowadays. It's funny as it is, right? And pretty special. I was really, really happy with people that I knew just like an avatar, or like with a nickname. I was like, oh, this is you, okay. You're a person. You're a person. It's a real experience, and I have many of them. Absolutely. I've brought this up on almost every interview that

[6:27] I've done, and I've talked about it in my talk, but like, for me, like the biggest jump, and I mean, you've been experiencing this for a while, but from web two to three is going from like an audience, like people you're almost like preaching to, to like community, people who are a part of what you do. So like on that note, like meeting people, have you had a chance to meet any of your collectors in person or anything like that? Like either this year or just in general, how has that been for you? Yes, yes, a lot of them, a lot of them. I mean, that was a true honor, really. Like, they're all amazing people, and I'm really grateful for their support and amazing to meet them in person. Some became friends over the years, and other time after the first time, and both are incredible, I mean. Absolutely. And I like when people just come up to me like, oh, I have you on Bareball. I'm like, oh my

[7:09] God, this is awesome. Like really awesome things to believe in. I mean, it means a lot for an artist, of course. Yeah. If somebody believes in your works and supports you. Especially from such a decentralized community. Yes, yes. You almost never expect to actually meet them in person. And people are excited to love your work, and it's just like, I don't know, puts a giant smile on their face. It's darn special. Amazing. It really is. It really is? Yeah. So this week, there's so much going on. I know you were speaking on a panel. Were you showing work anywhere? Because I know they were doing the Times Square thing. Tell us a little bit about what you had going on this week, in terms of your art. Oh my God. It was all last week, we didn't have to put anything together. Of course. Everybody had last week's plans all over the place. So, my artwork is at two places? Oh yeah, it is two places. Try that, and you feel like the butcher did it. He knows.

[7:57] At Postmaster Gallery, they had a special exhibit called Gas Station. It's pretty like, you know, Ethereum gas, a gas station, where I like, top it off. So I had a piece there, and I have a piece, a timepiece at Dreamverse, with time. Awesome, awesome. The collaboration. So there's an exhibit, actually it opens today. Today, yeah. We'll see you there. Yeah, there's a party in the event tonight, yeah. No, amazing, amazing. And it's so nice to be able to actually physically exhibit your work, and be there. I mean, I know that you've had that experience a little bit over the past couple months. Of course, yeah, but not always. Not always, yeah. Not always, right? Yeah, and then, of course, you've also exhibited a lot in the metaverse, and now we're really seeing those. Many times, many times. Yeah, a lot. And now we're finally seeing those worlds like, blend. Like, I've been to a couple shows here where they have, you know, VR headsets in the

[8:44] space, and, you know, AR experience, and how has that been for you, bringing your work from the metaverse into IRL settings, even if it isn't this like, blended mixed reality kind of vibe? I don't know. I feel like the work should exist in both worlds. Why not, right? I mean, I'm into physical, making physical work as well. I feel like both are relevant, both should exist, because we both, like, exist IRL in the URL. Right. I love that. I don't know, I don't know. It's just like, I know how, I like how it sounds. I love that, actually. I mean, of course, like, of it, I think, I believe that a lot of works of art will exist in the metaverse going forward, and NFC technology is amazing for preserving provenance and ensuring the artwork is not lost, and seemingly transferred into the digital realm. So it's pretty fascinating, but the physical artwork is pretty incredible, too. It's something special to see the painting or sculpture

[9:45] up close. It's like, it's a totally different experience. Even NFC on the screen, you know, they're also cool. Like, big, not just on your computer, yeah, yeah. Okay, this is cool. Absolutely, I wrote an article about, for this publication, actually, about how, you know, digital art and, like, the metaverse is facilitating works that could never be created fully IRL. And now we're taking these, like, insane sculptures or, like, really cute characters that are, like, completely, you know, unrealistic but dope, and bringing them into IRL settings through AR and through VR, et cetera. How has that been for you? Is there anything that you've created recently that you're like, I would never be able to do this if it wasn't for 3D and for all of this technology? Yeah, of course. It's not everything that you're doing. I mean, tag makes your characters make your artwork come alive. You know, in the metaverse, everything's possible. There is, you know,

[10:36] gravity. So it's, you're not limited to canvas, or. It's so empowering. There are no, it's limitless, the metaverse, that what fascinates me about it, you know, as an artist. I mean, I'm looking forward to exploring more and more. You know, and it's just like, yeah, limitless potential. That what attracted to me to the whole world in the first place. Absolutely, and I mean, you've been existing kind of in this, like, bleeding edge side of tech for a while, and I feel like you really enjoy trying the newest thing and the newest thing. What's something you're working on right now or that you have coming up that you're really excited? Was there any technology that, because for me as well, it's like, you know, NFTs are like the gateway drug. It's just tokenizing your artwork, right? You said it, you said it really well. Like, it's just certifying your artwork on the blockchain. It's good, like, it's great. But, you know, the utility and the

[11:22] Web3 aspect and VR, AR, all of these elements of this world are so in-depth, so what techs is really exciting you right now? Oh my god, I'm working on so many things right now. Like, a lot. I have a lot in the pipeline. 2022? Yeah, yeah, right after the conference, I'll be like, okay, it's time to go to work. Time to actually, like, make it happen. Yes. Yeah, both physical, sculpture, painting. I'm adding AR components in my work. Yeah, I have plans to create, like, a completely virtual experience. Nice. In the metaverse, I mean, yes. Makes sense, yeah. I have an idea. Yeah, I have a solo show coming up in spring 2022. Like, yeah, next year. So, I'm preparing the mixed media show for that. Excellent. I mean, I have so much and I really want to do so much. I wish I had more time. I wish I had, like, 25 hours a day, you know, like. It would be nice if the whole world could pause for, like, a week or something. We'd get so much done, yeah? I know, I

[12:20] know, I know. But, like, yes, you always, like, want to do something. Like, NFT Space is so fast-paced, but also so inspiring. At the same time, you see what people are working on. Especially over this week, I'm like, okay, I want to try this, I want to try that. Now I'm excited, like, oh my god. I want to collab. It's, yeah, it's never-ending. So, like, also this year, there's been so much more exhibited because now we actually have all this space, right? Is there anything that you saw this week that you're like, I like that, I want to take that and use that? I, you know, still like an artist, right? But you want to see their favorite little elements of all these different things and then take that and bring it to your practice. What's really exciting you right now for this week? I love this advertising on Times Square, yes. I think it's the hundreds. Thank you, yeah. I was like, this is funny, you know? And a lot of people

[13:04] didn't even know if it's true or not. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I like this kind of, like, place. Like, you know, that irony. That was, like, the really funny one. And there was a giant panda just standing on Times Square in a very casual manner. I was like, this is so ridiculous. I love that. I love those kind of things. Like, unexpected, like, weird things. And, like, I don't think any of us expected to see all this 3D art taking over Times Square right now. I mean, if you said a year ago. Right, like pool cats, like pool cats or whatever, board aids or random stuff, completely. Yeah, yeah, completely, yeah. And then also, I mean, it's a cool thing for me as well because I was a child actor. I was working in New York. And then, you know, they showed all of our faces on the Times Square screens. And it's just like, to me, that's insane, you know, going from, like, we're developers, we're 3D people,

[13:52] we're like, we're behind the camera people. And now we get to, you know, be known for the things that we love to do genuinely. So I think it's really exciting. Yes, indeed. Yeah, and I saw some new frames, people working on display frames, and some of them are really cool. Very thin, like a picture frame. Even better. So I was like, okay, like, I don't think, like, the question of, like, oh, how do I display that is going to be relevant, like, six months or a year from now? So I'm happy. Finally, you know, those puzzle pieces are coming together, yeah. Finally, so people are figuring it out, and it's gonna be solved. Even six months ago, like, getting a good display screen was a challenge, you know? True, true, but now look at us, like, hey, you know. Overwhelmed with screen sponsors, yeah. We'll be like, oh, no, it's like a best buy, and now, like, oh, and it's just a high. Okay, I guess it's fine. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's something to it. I

[14:45] feel like, yeah, and people need to get used to things. It happens gradually. This year, I'm definitely doing a bunch of stuff. I know Kenny's doing a bunch of stuff, you're doing a bunch of stuff, but I think this year is gonna be maybe one of the most historic art events. Like, this is going to live down as, like, one of the events that really push NFTs into the mainstream, you know, because they're taking over Art Basel, pretty much, this year, you know? I know, it's crazy, right? Yeah. Before, they were like, no NFTs, and now everybody's doing NFT events. I mean, Miami, I mean, a lot of people in Miami, right, there was, like, Bitcoin in Miami, it was huge. And I'm sure you've been to Art Basel's in the past. Like, what are you maybe looking forward to, like, knowing what's happened in the past, like, versus this year? Oh my God, what I'm looking forward to. I'm gonna face myself, I'll get some

[15:27] rest, and I'll actually get some sun, that's what I'm looking forward to, you know? Go to the beach or something, yeah. I never do that when I'm there, but, like, yeah, I feel like this is important, like, balance, a little bit of balance. All the balance guide to crypto events, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's impossible to chase the parties, like, there's always something you're gonna miss, you know, unless you want to go to, but yeah, I mean, schedule is very helpful, so, like. Absolutely, at least it's a very, you know, it's a robust event, it's been around for a really long time, so I feel like I'm excited to see how, like, existing infrastructure will serve with, like, an NFT -ish event, because it's still not just an NFT event, right? You still have all the traditional booths, and, like, Payson, everybody they wanna do, but. Everybody wants to do something. Everybody's doing something, the fashion company, every brand is

[16:11] doing something, and it's just like, that huge. And now there's so many off-shot events at the same time, as well, like, it's insane, we're gonna take over. Wow, it's pretty insane. Another city. I mean, yeah, I mean, all the events, all the, it's like a endless party and celebration, I think it's gotta be wild this year, because the quarantine, you know, and now it's like, oh, everybody can go out and party, and it's gonna be crazy. I love it. I don't wanna keep you all day, but I do wanna ask you, you know, for people watching at home, anybody who was feeling the FOMO, wasn't able to make it to the event, how would you describe the energy here right now? How has it been from your, apart from tired, because I mean, we're both exhausted at this point. Tired, tired, no, yeah, it's very celebratory, it's very festive, everybody's excited, new people are trying to get in, there's a lot of hype, there's a lot of interesting events, it's like a real, really huge

[16:59] party, like, in a way, and there are interesting panels, and yeah, I mean, it's just like, major. It's major, it is, absolutely, yeah. I didn't expect it to be like this way, but. And it feels really important being here, yeah. Yeah, history in the making. Absolutely, absolutely, and we're here covering it, so it's perfect, you know, yeah, we got to, yeah. Yeah, we've got to. That's right time, right place, and down, I mean, darn, it's like, great interview, really. No, thank you, thank you, I appreciate it. Great, I appreciate it, yeah, great logo, too. It's by one of our DAO members there, but yeah. So, very much a pleasure to finally meet you in person. Before we end this off, if people want to find you online or check out some of your work, where can they do that? My Instagram, Olive underscore Allen, or else. My website, OliveAllen .com. Yeah, probably the main resource, and if you are into Twitter, it's

[17:59] I am Olive Allen. That's my Twitter handle, yeah. Perfect. Those are the main resources. We'll throw those on the screen here so you guys can check out our work. It's been such a pleasure getting to chat with you, and have a lovely rest of your New York experience. Thank you all for watching. Thanks a lot. Have a great rest of your days.

David Cash https://www.davidcash.ca