Miguel: The Future of Entertainment Is Decentralized | NFT Magazine at NFT NYC 2022

Singer, songwriter, and creative director Miguel sits down with David Cash for NFT Magazine, recorded live in New York at Samsung 837 during NFT NYC in June 2022 and presented by Spatial, the metaverse for culture. Joined by Hawa Camara of Spatial, Miguel explains why decentralization appeals to him (his carpenter father taught him to build it himself), describes turning a motel into 20 art rooms, and makes the case for real things in real life paired with digital offerings that cut waste. The three also get into ownership, community, digital fashion, and why Web3 can feel like Web 2.5.

Watch on YouTube

Chapters

1. 00:00 Live from Samsung 837 for NFT Magazine
2. 00:34 A first NFT NYC and Web3 evangelists
3. 02:12 The DMs, and David's NFT thesis
4. 03:16 Why decentralization: doing it yourself
5. 04:23 Ownership and community
6. 06:01 Bringing experiential art into the metaverse
7. 09:12 A metaverse that adds to physical life
8. 10:50 Utility beyond the hype
9. 14:47 S1C: physical goods offered as NFTs first
10. 15:53 Digital fashion and Web 2.5
11. 18:04 Where to find Miguel

Speakers

• Miguel, singer, songwriter, and creative director; founder of S1C
• Hawa Camara, Spatial
• David Cash, host, NFT Magazine

Key topics

• Decentralization as a do-it-yourself idea built with and for people
• Ownership you can prove, and what it means for music, fashion, and community
• A motel converted into 20 art rooms, and how that kind of experience moves into Spatial
• Bridging IRL and URL: real-life utility for digital projects
• Offering physical goods digitally first to reduce waste
• Digital fashion, avatars, and identity

In their words

"The future is decentralized, it's about people." (Miguel)

"I want to make real things in real life and I want to build a community on Web3." (Miguel)

How to cite

APA: Cash, D. (2022). Miguel: The Future of Entertainment Is Decentralized | NFT Magazine at NFT NYC 2022 [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/n-wtiAiCpc8

Chicago: Cash, David. "Miguel: The Future of Entertainment Is Decentralized | NFT Magazine at NFT NYC 2022." Recorded June 23, 2022, at Samsung 837, New York. YouTube video, 18:46. https://youtu.be/n-wtiAiCpc8.

Recording details

Recorded: June 23, 2022, at Samsung 837, New York

Format: Live podcast recording for NFT Magazine, presented by Spatial

Length: 18:46 · Language: English

Hosted by David Cash

About the series

In June 2022, the NFT Magazine podcast broadcast live from Samsung 837 in New York's Meatpacking District during NFT NYC, presented by Spatial. David Cash hosted conversations with musicians, artists, and builders about crypto art, the metaverse, and culture. The episodes are archived on David Cash's YouTube channel.

About this record

Presented with framing, speaker name tags, and captions added in 2026. Captions were machine-transcribed and reviewed by hand, with names checked against speaker introductions. Speaker roles are as of the recording date and may have changed since.

Shared for educational, research, and archival purposes. For corrections, name spellings, or removal requests: david@cashlabs.io

Transcript

Machine-transcribed and reviewed. Timestamps link to the moment in the video.

[0:00] Welcome back to NFT Magazine. My name is David Cash, host of this podcast. We're here live in New York City at Samsung 837, brought to you by Spatial.io, the metaverse for culture. We're here as the definitive source of crypto art, trying to bridge the gap between the real world and the metaverse. And we're joined here today by both the one and the only Miguel and Hawa from Spatial. So excited to have you guys here today. How's it going? Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, happy to be here. Awesome. We're here in New York. It's NFT NYC. The vibes are electric. We've got a million people running around this venue right now. Come to see some panel talks. Miguel, I'm assuming this is your first NFT NYC. First one. What's this energy being like to you compared to all the other types of events and, you know, experiences that you've had at conferences and music festivals? It's been a great experience. I mean, the city alone,

[0:43] just being back in the city with so much energy feels really good. I think I got here maybe six months ago, and it was still kind of not all the way open. Post pandemic. All the good vibes. Yeah. Yeah. And so everything open. And then to have all of these sort of Web3 evangelists, just people who just really believe in the space and have been in it for some time is really dope to see. Energy's great. People are great. Absolutely. You stole the word down my mouth. I love that. Web3 evangelists. Yeah. And how? I know this is your first one, too, and you're recently new to Spatial, but you're actually crushing bringing the metaverse forward. What's it like being a metaverse person at an event like this? It's cool. I've met so many people in Web3, and then I'm meeting them in real life, and it's like this crazy matrix-like moment, and it's been so cool, because I feel like a lot of people feel like Web3 kind of takes you away from real life,

[1:33] but if anything, I've found so much connection through Web3. I hit up people that live in Egypt and China. I'm hanging out with them on Spatial and then meeting them in real life, and it's been a great experience. I really have been enjoying being in the space lately, so yeah. I find this a lot more direct. Yeah, it's cool. You get DMs from people all the time being like, hey, let's collab. The DMs, that's like the way people communicate. Like, don't give out your email. It's actually pointless. I'm going to miss that email, but see the DM. Yeah, it's actually kind of funny, because professionally it should be like email. Yeah, pretty much Twitter has all of our info. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Elon is laughing right now. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Not Elon. I'm screaming. Yo, he knew. He was like, I know all your guys' business.

[2:23] Yeah, it's all in the DMs. It goes down in the DMs. That's my song. Yeah. How's it been for you though, David? It's been good. It's been really crazy. I wrote a master's thesis on NFTs a few years back, and it just seemed like a really wild concept, and now it's very much a reality. And here it is. So it's really cool. Wow, so you're like psychic. Basically. You saw the future. It was a trend forecast. You don't call it that. Let's give it a vision, you know? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But I think it's really interesting right now in the space. I'm really happy to see you here. I'm seeing a lot of friends from, let's say, high-end Web2 come to Web3 fashion brands, musicians, artists, directors. And I think that it's really, you know, we're getting this cultural renaissance 3.0 that we're really being craving here. I'm curious, what was it that attracted you, Miguel, to this whole Web3 world, and how do you see yourself thriving in it?

[3:14] You know, the biggest thing, I think, that is so attractive to it is decentralization, this concept of decentralization. Hell, yeah. I'm a, first and foremost, my father was a carpenter growing up, and he went to school, he went back to school, and became a teacher, but when I was younger, he was a carpenter. And he always taught me to do it yourself, you know, if you want to make something, you do it yourself. Decentralization has that sort of built-in, you know what I mean? It's about doing it yourself and building it with people. There's no bank, no customer service. And it's definitely not built to serve one person, it's to serve everyone. It's all unanimous, and that's sort of like the, I think when people ask me about why I'm interested, I'm like, yo, it's people for people, you know what I mean?

[4:04] And that's, I'm not to be corny, or to be too like dreamy, but that's the future. The future is decentralized, it's about people. And I think all of the sort of like, the things that we see in society and the world, it's like it's really because it's the centralized idea that everyone's trying to fit their life and their ideas and their products and things, you know, the way that they do their life, to a centralized way of being. And decentralization is the answer to me. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, especially like, also ownership in that sense. Come on. Like, that's the thing for me. I'm like, that's fly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's on the blow. Shane, I own this forever. Forever. And you can prove it. Yeah, and I can prove that. You're not trusting somebody else.

[4:51] That's huge for music, that's huge for fashion, that's huge for community. That's a big part of it, especially just, you know, being a black woman and just like being in a marginalized community or whatever. Having that ownership and being able to like, pioneer in this space is a big deal for me. Sure, yeah, yeah. The wild part is that it kind of gives everyone this opportunity to participate regardless of not, if they own the original idea. The moment you become a part of a community or a part of my idea, you now actually own how it grows, what it means when it grows, and then if you decide that maybe it's not for you at another time, when you pass it on, that ownership is worth something, you know. And it sounds like the problem is what you did doesn't go away. Everyone's perspective is now creating this larger thing.

[5:40] Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I think you're spot on in terms of like pushing with decentralization first, you know. When I was writing my thesis, I was talking about like decentralization as like an anthropological device. Like how, you know, first we had like digital nomads, then we had, you know, then blockchain started, so some people tried to decentralize their finance, now NFTs are allowing us to put our things in decentralized spaces on the blockchain. And I really do believe, you know, how I'm sure you're right here with me, you know, the next frontier is very much the metaverse. And I mean, you've created art in many different forms. Miguel, you know, music, physical, experiential, we can say, you know, really things that people want to go in and be there and see and feel. Yeah, yeah. How do you feel like you can bring that into the metaverse? I also want to hear how things, you know. Yeah, I mean, well, that's actually sort of,

[6:23] the crazy thing is like Spatial, the way that they're doing it is like so, it's like leaps and bounds. Totally. Beyond what I've seen and what I know of. And it's cool to at least be able to tap in with all these different things. I will say like, there's a little bit of like, I will use what I can to at least like learn, you know. Right. And when I think about experiential things I've done in real life, we did a motel. I basically like took over this motel, like a really seedy motel in LA. I love that. In the hood. I probably shot there once, yeah. That's fun. Yeah, yeah. Like, I can curse. Can I curse on you? No, no cursing. Yeah, no. So, it's really fucked up, like seedy motel. I'm pretty sure it's like an hour with this motel in.

[7:11] Low key. Low key. That was the search term. It was like, yeah, what's like the worst motel you can go to. So, in the hood, we took it over, 20 rooms we converted into experiences. Wow. Sort of art experiences. So, every room was different, right? So, when I think, that was real life. But now we can do this, and anyone can come and enjoy it wherever they are remotely. And I think of... Spatial. And I go, see, this is where I would do it. Because you can build it and it looks... Just like it. It looks exactly like... Yeah. I'm just saying, it kills. It kills. Now we're shilling Spatial. It kills. Like, it's... Yeah, I didn't mean to shill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have no affiliation, by the way. But, you know, I'm just...

[8:00] Spatial's kind of my introduction to in Web3, and I like the fact that I have my full body avatar. I can be me. I can go into these different spaces. I can connect with different people. People have done concerts, college courses. I mean, the vast... It's so many different things. And when you say things like that, I'm like, that's just another thing that you can do in Spatial. Yeah. I think Illmind is doing live DJing. Yeah. And classes. Like, he's collabing with people and making songs. Big shout to Illmind, by the way. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We were with him some days ago. Yeah. Illmind's awesome. We're sad to see him leave New York. He's moving to Miami now. But Illmind's killing it, man. It's cool, though. Like, I literally go in black house, and I'm like, yo, like, y'all are making a song right now. Yeah. Yeah. He's making an album now, too. It's sick. Yeah.

[8:47] I feel like I completely missed the other question, the actual question. Because I was just thinking about the... You're fine. I'll bring this back. Yeah, yeah. The metaverse, as well, in terms of this... I believe it's a facilitation of art and culture, right? And Spatial calls himself the metaverse for culture. So there you go. So I think this all makes a lot of sense. But for me, I think the most exciting thing about the metaverse is also for you, as an artist, as somebody who wants to create, like you're saying, these types of experiences, I always like to say that the metaverse should not be something that detracts from our physical lives. It should be something that adds to our lives. Yes. And when you're considering these types of experiences, what can you make that you wouldn't be able to make in real life? Yeah. How does that kind of idea inspire you? Well, that's kind of the amazing thing.

[9:29] It's like we can augment our reality. Oh, yeah. And extend our reality. And accentuate. Yeah, exactly. I think that that's actually the real bridge. Because I think we're all trying to figure out how to onboard people to the concept, right? And it's like, how do we get people to understand that this is the future, this is a better way of doing most everything, especially in a market system. How do we get them to understand the concept? And it really is like bridging that gap between IRL and URL. And it's like, wait, can we give them real life utility? And you sort of can accentuate life in dope ways in VR. And so it's like you can heighten that reality. You can heighten it in VR. And then you can also connect it in real life.

[10:18] I think that's the coolest thing, utility. Those are the best NFT projects, what do you want to say? Web3 projects is where you can kind of have that bridge together. And I also feel like just people in general, when you can see yourself in Web3, then that's when you start connecting. You just got to find that space, like, oh, I love Miguel. Let me like tap into this. Oh, this is a cool project. Let me tap into this. When you see yourself, that's when that connection happens. But actually, I think that's actually probably the bigger thing. People seeing themselves in it. You're absolutely right. And I'm curious from your point of view as well, I think a lot of things you were saying, I'm actually quite impressed that you must have done quite a bit of research into this space and gone pretty hard. I've been editing for a long time. I know, I love it. But beyond the metaverse, let's say, it's what are we going to bring to the metaverse?

[11:06] What is the content? What is the solution? What's the creativity? So I definitely see you as an artist. I see a lot of people who are kind of pigeonholed in certain industries as much larger entities than maybe they're perceived as. And I definitely think that musical artists are probably the most undervalued directors, producers, artists in the world, perhaps. I have so many friends who they put on massive shows and they are the person who did everything. Totally not credited. So I'm really curious for you. Maybe we haven't had a chance to speak before. I'm sure you have a whole creative process. But I'm curious how you're going to bring the world, your world, into NFTs and into Web3. Man, to me, my focus is how do we translate the utility in such a way that makes it super normal?

[12:03] And how do we make it less about this idea that maybe it's like a hype thing? Sensationalism. In this version right now. And we're losing it now. I think that's where we're seeing it's like, obviously, Bear market, blah, blah, blah. That's a good thing. Exactly. So we're kind of getting rid of that whole crowd of people who jumped in on hype. 10K, another animal project. Bro, yeah. Like 14th animal. Every time I get off the stage, they come up to me. Exactly like the other one. I love this one, too. Pregnant pandas. Yeah, yeah. But how do we take the ability to sort of offer something and how do we connect it to things that are real?

[12:55] That's where I'm like, no, I want to make real things in real life and I want to build a community on Web3. I want to offer these things in real life digitally so that I don't make too many of that in real life and waste. And that's where sustainability is. Yeah. So to me, that's like where it's one way that I think we can use the technology in a way that's like, it's good for people and the earth. It doesn't hurt the earth. It helps minimize waste. And then also like, you can build genuine. You know, you can build genuine. So the more I think businesses and people ideate in ways that connect digital to physical, I think this whole thing that everyone's focused on in terms of utility, it's built in. It's built in.

[13:43] You're offering something, either a real product or a real service, and you just connect it digitally. I think that's where I intend on creating the most. Real life things with digital offerings that will live forever and then also have a real use kit. You know, like real use, you know? So using Web3 is that bridge, that conduit to access folks. I hope I explain that. Yeah, absolutely. In an adhesive way. Do you feel like you're going to kind of like expand more on music or do you want to try some different things? Like what's like... Yeah, where am I at? It's kind of fun because obviously you're a Miguel, but you can be something fresh or new, reinvent yourself almost in this new space. So I'm just kind of curious if you feel like this is going to extend your music or you feel like you might try to do some other creative direction stuff. Yeah, so this is probably...

[14:32] I'm leading in this more from a creative director, entrepreneur place. But music will sort of naturally evolve to the music side. It's part of your world. Yeah, it'll naturally do that. And sort of the roadmap, that's already sort of in there. But the focus is making... So S1C is my company. We're a life and style brand. So we make physical goods and that's what we focus on. But we're offering them as NFTs first. Sorry to shill. Excuse me. No, it's great. I want you to know. I'm genuinely like... Yeah, sorry to shill, guys. For everyone watching. But we're offering them digitally so that we don't waste, which is what I already said.

[15:20] So that's where we're leading and that's where I'm starting in this space. But I think knowing how we can sort of democratize and really invigorate the value of music and the opportunity to do that with NFTs is really exciting. I think we'll get there in terms of S1C getting to music. We'll get there. But yeah, this is sort of... I'm starting in... I think it's really interesting. It's really fun. We had Don Diablo on another episode of this and he's also somebody who's kind of like moved between a lot of these different genres, especially fashion, which I think is really interesting and how obviously now we have World of Women and Fabricant coming in to Spatial and be able to do awesome things. It's dope. How do you see, maybe Miguel, I don't know if you're interested much in virtual fashion, but how do you see the physical digital kind of combining, I guess, in this realm that you're trying to build?

[16:09] The best place is like... The best I've seen it is on Spatial. That's probably why. It probably sounds like we're showing some artists. No, but straight up, yeah. When you see it, I mean, when you look at it, I wish people could see... Yeah. Is this from Spatial? Yeah, this is. This is, right? Yeah. This is like our RPM. This is a pretty fortunate timing, actually. I was like, yeah, that looks right. If you're watching or listening on a podcast, I'm sorry. Yeah. This is my bad. But yeah, I feel like... That's what I love about Spatial. I feel like it's kind of like web... I always make the joke like Web 2.5 because I'm like, it's the blockchain, but it's also like, yeah, we have hyperlinks. You can go and link your Shopify and sell your clothes if you're a small designer, or you can just do different types of things. Well, how about your little psychic, because Vogue Business calls it Web 2.5.

[16:59] Web 2.5, okay. Well, that's literally like my joke, so that's hilarious. I didn't know that either. It's a thing. Yeah, that's why I like it. I want it to almost merge. I love Web3. Web2 has its perks. Let's create something new and fresh. That's kind of my take on it. Yeah, yeah. In terms of what we're offering, I think that's... In terms of digital, the digital... I'm sorry, digital fashion is like probably so far in the future, it's hard for people to really understand why it's valuable. Eventually, we'll stop making clothes, and our reality will be augmented in general. People will probably wear some sort of contact lens where things are augmented. We'll be wearing suits, and so the moment you're like, no, I'm wearing this, that's what we'll show.

[17:50] 100%. I think people who are designing digitally are so far ahead, and that's where I'm like, again, 2.5 excited. I'm excited, and that's why I fuck with Spatial, because I'm like, oh no, but it looks like it would look in real life, and people can see why it would be valuable. Your identity doesn't change in that sense, and Spatial, it's like synonymous. I can wear my own swag, I can do what I want to do. That's really cool. I just got called. Unfortunately, we've hit the end of our time, but Miguel, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. It was a pleasure. Just for anybody who's listening who wants to go figure out who Miguel the artist, Miguel the creative director is, where would you send people? I would send them to s1c.la. That's where our community will come together, and that's where all of our offerings will exist. But yeah, you can just look me up online.

[18:39] It's Miguel. M-I-G-U-E-L. Keep it easy for us. Thank you everybody for watching. This is NFT Magazine. See you in the next episode.