LGBTQIA+ Identity in the Metaverse: Pride Kickoff | Decentraland Pride 2022

David Cash opens Decentraland's Metaverse Pride 2022 with Iara Dias of Decentraland, Jo Hunt of Serotonin, artist Nicole Ruggiero, Matt Stevenson of MetaPride Land, and artist FoodMasku. Recorded for the first day of a month of Pride programming in June 2022, the panel covers what queer identity means in virtual space, SuperRare's Pride shows in New York, MetaPride Land's live-streamed concerts and charity collection, weddings in the metaverse, and why queer artists need to be paid.

Watch on YouTube

Chapters

1. 00:00 Welcome to Metaverse Pride in Decentraland
2. 01:11 Iara Dias on producing Metaverse Pride
3. 02:53 Nicole Ruggiero on Icons and SuperTrans at SuperRare
4. 08:30 Jo Hunt on finding queer voices in crypto
5. 14:20 Matt Stevenson on MetaPride Land
6. 21:46 FoodMasku on curating the MetaPride Land collection
7. 27:51 The month ahead: parade, kissing emote, and City Hall of Love
8. 35:40 Discovering queerness online
9. 41:08 Jo Hunt on The Sims, PR, and corporate Pride
10. 46:45 New York Pride, streamed into the metaverse
11. 52:29 Generational wealth for queer artists
12. 56:32 What not to miss this month

Speakers

• Iara Dias, Lead Producer of Metaverse Pride, Decentraland
• Jo Hunt, Director of PR, Serotonin
• Nicole Ruggiero, 3D artist; co-curator of Icons at SuperRare
• Matt Stevenson, Co-founder, MetaPride Land
• FoodMasku (Antonius), artist; curator of the MetaPride Land collection
• David Cash, Curator, Decentraland Foundation (host)

Key topics

• Producing a full month of Pride programming in Decentraland
• SuperRare's Icons and SuperTrans exhibitions in New York
• Finding queer community online, from anime forums to The Sims
• MetaPride Land: New York Pride events streamed into Decentraland, with links to support services
• A MetaPride Land NFT collection benefiting Outright Action International
• The Pride Parade, a kissing emote, and Closeup's City Hall of Love
• Corporate Pride and year-round support for the community
• Generational wealth and fair pay for queer artists

In their words

"just because it's virtual, it doesn't mean it's not real." (Jo Hunt)

"buy from us, hire us, pay us." (Iara Dias)

How to cite

APA: Cash, D. (2022). LGBTQIA+ Identity in the Metaverse: Pride Kickoff | Decentraland Pride 2022 [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/Cbn44fYsFVg

Chicago: Cash, David. "LGBTQIA+ Identity in the Metaverse: Pride Kickoff | Decentraland Pride 2022." Recorded June 1, 2022; aired June 3, 2022, Decentraland. YouTube video, 1:04:48. https://youtu.be/Cbn44fYsFVg.

Recording details

Recorded: June 1, 2022, Riverside.fm; aired June 3, 2022, Decentraland

Format: Panel recorded for Decentraland Metaverse Pride 2022

Length: 1:04:48 · Language: English

Curated and hosted by David Cash for the Decentraland Foundation

About the series

Decentraland Metaverse Pride 2022 was a month of programming in Decentraland in June 2022. David Cash, then Curator for the Decentraland Foundation, curated and hosted this panel series. The panels were pre-recorded and aired on the rooftop of the Cash Labs gallery in Decentraland. Five panels are archived here.

About this record

Presented as edited for the original 2022 broadcast, with captions added in 2026. Captions were machine-transcribed and reviewed by hand, with names checked against speaker introductions. Speaker roles are as of the recording date and may have changed since.

Shared for educational, research, and archival purposes. For corrections, name spellings, or removal requests: david@cashlabs.io

Transcript

Machine-transcribed and reviewed. Timestamps link to the moment in the video.

[0:06] Hello, everybody. Welcome to Pride Month here in Decentraland in the Metaverse. We're really excited to be here with you today. June 3rd, kicking off our programming here for Pride Month in the Cash Labs Gallery. Thank you all for joining us here today. My name is David Cash, and I'm a curator for the Decentraland Foundation, and I'm working very closely with Iara and the incredible team at Decentraland to bring some of these incredible activations that we're about to discuss to light this month for Pride Month. I'm really excited to break down what we have in store for everybody in a little bit more detail in today's conversation. So with that being said, we have so much in store for you. We have so much to share, so I think we should just kick it right off. We have Iara here from the Decentraland Foundation, who is the lead producer on Metaverse Pride here in Decentraland this month.

[0:56] She's done an amazing job. So many things happening this month. Iara, we'd love to hear from you. If you want to introduce yourself, give us your pronouns, and let people know a little bit about what you do at Decentraland and what you've done and what you've planned for all of us this month for DCL Pride. All right. Thank you so much for the introduction. And thanks, everyone, for being here as well. So my name is Iara Dias. I'm a producer at Decentraland. My pronouns are her, she. And so I'm originally from Brazil. I'm here based in Finland, so it's quite late for me. So if I'm too slow, it might be the Internet or maybe just a lack of coffee. We are producing a full month of program, and we keep starting with this panel talks that we will basically give some tips for you, like what clues of what we're bringing.

[1:55] And I'm really happy to be, like, in honored and feel like the responsibility of leading the Pride Month. But I think, you know, I'm really grateful as well for our director to give me this opportunity because I am from the LGBTQ community. Being a producer will be the natural thing, really, to produce something that's so close to me, yeah, personally. And I'm really happy to connect with so many amazing people from the community, and it's, like, just love. And we are doing this with so much love for everyone. And, yeah, so that's it. Amazing. Thanks so much, Iara. I'm really excited about delving in a little bit deeper on some of the activations we have planned and, yeah, what it means to reflect a fully global and fully decentralized community.

[2:50] Yeah, definitely a lot to delve into. Nicole, Nicole Ruggiero, one of my favorite artists in the NFT space, and now also doing a ton, curating and bringing queer artists to light with amazing people at SuperRare. I would love to hear a little bit from you. Why don't you let the people know a little bit what you're doing right now, and if you could lead with your pronouns, that would be fabulous as well. Yeah, hello, everyone. I'm Nicole Ruggiero. She, her, they, them. And coming up soon, I guess next week on Thursday is the opening of Icons and SuperTrans over in the Soho SuperRare gallery space. So we're really excited about that.

[3:40] I curated Icons with Plant Daddy, my partner, Sam Clover, and SuperTrans was curated by Laurel Charleston. Who is going to be on our next panel, so look out for that. Very nice. And, yeah, it's been super cool. Basically, Sam and I were curating, basically for our curation, we decided to focus on artists who are very open and vocal about who they are as queer people, as queer artists, whether that's in their art or just in their local communities or online communities.

[4:33] We really wanted to honor and highlight these artists who both have wonderful artwork and who are making a difference, whether they're involved in politics or they're just involved in helping their communities, they're making queer art. Really just anything that's very out loud and proud because I think that also can be a risk for artists. And I really and Sam really wanted to honor these people who are out there speaking vocally and ultimately really helping the queer community as a whole. So that's our curation. And then Laurel's curation got combined with ours for SuperTrans and I'll let Laurel speak about her curation on your next panel.

[5:33] We got combined and we were really excited. We all live in New York so we got to get together and really do this in person and Laurel is just absolutely amazing. And so it's going to be basically just a big party. We're super excited. We have a performance by Woo Women that night as well as DJs and I think it's just going to be super cool. Yeah, that's on the 9th next Thursday at 7. We'll be releasing more info on that soon including a link. I think on Friday we'll be releasing that publicly. And then not just inherently for Pride but I have a solo show the next day in Greenpoint at 11 Newell and I am really excited.

[6:26] I'm really nervous. You know, we do. I worked on this with some collaborators. The Glad Scientist who's also queer and Dylan Banks as well as some other amazing people. And it's a VR, AR, portrait exhibition and it's going to be awesome. And yeah, I'm super excited. It's the first time I've shown it in the States and it's the first time I'm going to be putting this work out as NFT. So very nervous about that. But it's going to be a great time too and it's going to be some great people. So I hope whoever wants to come out to that can. It's that Friday, next Friday, June 10th at, I believe it starts at 6.

[7:20] Again, it'll be on my socials. I have bright links pinned to my Twitter. So yeah, and we're doing an NFT NYC thing as well. So keep an eye out for all that. Fabulous. So many amazing things. I mean, I think it should be noted that queer art being presented in New York this month is significant. And I think that any event within that context should be really heavily attended. So I know that there's a whole bunch of buzz being drummed up right now around the SuperRare show. I know that I definitely, I hope I can check out both shows and really excited to see all of the amazing work that you've been doing. You, Yanny, the whole SuperRare team, and all the work you've been doing on your independent show because that's, you know, snaps for you. That's a huge endeavor. And I know how much work that can be. So huge props to you and can't wait to dive in.

[8:11] I definitely have a few questions for you on what's to come this coming month. Yeah. Also, FoodMasku's in the Icons show. We love synergy. Amazing, amazing. Thank you so much, Nicole, and really appreciate you taking the time to be here as well. I want to head over to Jo, Jo Hunt, director of PR for Serotonin, one of the leaders in the Web3 space here in the PR industry. Jo is incredible. We've worked together for Metaverse Fashion Week, works very closely with Decentraland. And, yeah, Jo, I'll let you introduce yourself in a little bit more detail. If you want to give us your pronouns and tell us a little bit about yourself and what you're excited about being very much, you know, knowledgeable on the 360, you know, scope of what's happening this month.

[9:01] Yeah, I would love to hear what's exciting from your perspective. Yeah, thanks for that, David. As you said, my pronouns are he, him. I'm a queer cisgender identifying male. I'm super excited about Metaverse Pride, I think. I've known about it for about six months now, and it's finally here, it's finally Pride Month. Happy Pride Month, everyone. To me, what's most exciting about this is I've been in the blockchain and crypto media landscape for five years now, and the first four years were very lonely. Crypto bro land where I heard all kinds of awful things casually on purpose all the time. And it wasn't really until the NFT space started taking off at the beginning of 2021 where I finally started seeing the queer voices, trans, non -binary voices that I've been looking for in this community.

[9:52] And so I feel finally at home I would like to credit people like you, David, who, you know, are kind of the magical witch or wizard of this space, bringing lots of people together. Also to Decentraland for providing a truly decentralized space for people to come and express themselves. I haven't seen this yet in the Metaverse space, so I'm really excited about what we have going on this month. To me, personally, my boyfriend is Mexican, and so the whole time we've been dating I've heard Thalía play all the time in our house, and I'm so excited for her to be a part of Metaverse Pride. This year she has a float, she's got some cool NFT stuff coming, as well as some highlights from her long career of being an international superstar, so that's one thing I'm very excited about.

[10:43] I'm also excited for what I want to steal Matt's thunder, but what Matt has going on with some of the famous drag queens that he's bringing to the Metaverse for the first time. I haven't seen a drag queen or anyone like that represented before in the Metaverse, so it's very exciting to me to also just explore generally what it means, what does queer identity mean in a virtual space. I hear a lot of, just online, as well as some straight and some gender friends saying, if you can be anyone, what's the point, why do you need to do this? And I think in light of all of the awful things going on in the world right now, that it is more important than ever to stand out, be proud, show who you are, just because it's virtual, it doesn't mean it's not real. If anything, it's more real, it's more dedication to how we actually present ourselves, and if anything, that leads us to find our true identities.

[11:34] I've spoken with quite a few trans and non -binary activists who threw the Metaverse of actually sometimes to make sure identity wasn't until COVID lockdowns hit that we're staring at ourselves all day long. Are we really who we say we are and not inside of our heads? And so I'm really grateful for this moment, not just globally where there are still 70 -something countries where it's illegal to be homosexual or transgender in public, but even here in the United States, we're seeing awful laws set up in more than half of the states now against trans people, against trans kids. So I do think that what we're doing here this month is groundbreaking in and of itself, but also just going to be there in the whole time. So thanks David for organizing this panel. Jo, thank you so much, such beautiful statements.

[12:24] I love so many things that you touched on there. I mean, I totally agree with you in terms of, too much everything you just said, but to touch on a couple points. Last year even, I know you've been in the industry for quite a while in the blockchain space, but even last year I remember writing articles on the lack of representation that I felt around Pride Month where you saw even major companies who are totally disingenuous trying at least to make some kind of statement, and then huge supposedly decentralized, supposedly Web3 companies making absolutely no endeavor. And I actually, I have to applaud Decentraland as being an organization that has a track recorder for years, making a point of to whatever extent they possibly could having a Decentraland Pride. So I think that's really exciting. And I know that you were at least partially to blame for at least some parts of it.

[13:12] So I think that it's been a great conversation and I'm so happy that you're part of it. And yeah, really excited about the depth and the breadth of what we get to explore this year now that the community's finally growing to kind of a point where we can finally have that tiny percentage of the community that is the queer community can be more aptly represented. So I think it's super exciting. And yeah, really excited as well to explore more in this conversation, one thing you touched on, the importance of virtual spaces to the queer community just as a whole. I think all of us can relate to this to some extent. No matter when you grew up, when you've had access to the internet, that gave you access to more queer people. And I think the blockchain and UNO, especially metaverse spaces, make those connections a lot more tangible being a word I really like to use when we're exploring how we interact with the metaverse.

[14:03] So I think it's really exciting and I'm really excited to explore that a little bit more with you and all of us in this conversation. And yeah, appreciate you being here and sharing your beautiful thoughts. Speaking of, and I think a perfect piggyback actually after your points, you mentioned what they have coming up. Matt, really excited about everything that MetaPride Land is bringing to the metaverse over the course of the next 30 or so days. Do you want to introduce yourself? Give us your pronouns and let us know a little bit more about all of the exciting things you have planned, because there's a lot, I know that. I know, I'm going to try to limit it, but thank you David for the introduction. Pronouns are he, him, names, Matt, Matt Stevenson, go buy whatever you want to call me. So excited and honored to be with everybody that's on the stage currently. Yeah, so I'm one of the co -founders of MetaPride Land

[14:52] and we are so thankful to have the support of Decentraland. Quick background on myself, I was part of the founding team at Time that launched TIMEPieces, that Web3 platform, and had been in the space for a while, worked at WIRED before that. And so I've always been kind of on the outskirts following along and I'm a cisgendered white gay male living in New York City. So lots of exposure to the queer community and the global queer community as a whole. And I just kept being frustrated with the lack of representation and lack of platforms for queer people to show up in not only metaverse spaces, but across kind of all Web3 spaces. And took issues with a lot of larger PFP projects and other NFT projects that were carving out these small channels and these contained boxes to have representation from the queer community within them, but not really investing in time or resources to provide us for a platform to have conversations like this out in

[15:43] the open and exposed to larger audiences. And so this just continued to build up on me and I'm fortunate to have some friends that are big party promoters, queer party promoters in North America. And I knew a big way that we could help change kind of the ratio and increase the representation that we have across Web3 is to bring folks that are not in Web3 into these spaces. So one of my first calls I made was to partner on the project. His name is Jake Resnicow. And I knew he was sitting around, on like around 250 ,000 email addresses of largely queer community that is not engaged in Web3 today. And I knew he'd be throwing some pretty amazing events for Pride this year in New York. And I thought, well, we need to start to bridge that divide between the physical queer communities that are happening all over the world and the events and celebrations that we all get together for all the time,

[16:32] because we all love to get together in Kiki and how we can start to bridge that with what would be happening in some of the platforms this year for Pride. So I got connected to Iara and the team at Decentraland and we started planning out how we could just bridge that. And so on June 24th and 25th, we have two events here in New York City with some amazing artists, everybody from Above and Beyond and Spencer Brown to Galantis and LP Giobbi. We just announced Blond:ish as well, who'll be another headliner for us, and about 20 other international DJs and musicians that'll be coming in, including three queens from RuPaul's Drag Race and Aquaria, Gottmik and Violet Chachki, and we'll be live streaming all of those performances directly into MetaPride Land within Decentraland, within Decentraland on the 24th and the 25th, and then keeping those up for longer term so that globally, anywhere you are, you'll have access to

[17:26] experience the same things that are happening in New York. And the goal with the entire platform of MetaPride Land is just continue to provide space and access to the amazing services and groups and projects and artists and family that already exist in this space and make sure that they have space to show their work and find community and access services, so where you have some partnerships and are looking to onboard more with life -saving support services, so things like gender identity counseling and suicide prevention and job resources and homelessness resources and healthcare resources so that the global queer community, regardless of what platform you are on or how you choose to partake or participate with your identity in these spaces, you have access. And it's not... I hate saying this, but I don't feel like it's that big of a challenge.

[18:12] Like, we have such a dedicated, hardworking family of representation that already exists all but we're small, but I think if we can continue to focus, or my goal is continuing to focus on those offline queer communities and bring them into our space for the first time, because I feel like once you get the bug and you need a few of us, it's very hard to stay away from us. Amazing. Matt, I love you. I love what you're doing. I'm really excited. Hope to see the event in New York. Excited to see the event in the metaverse and excited to see how you bridge that divide. I think it's incredibly important, what you're saying about providing access to these types of spaces. I know that we all live in positions of privilege in New York, LA, Toronto, in major cities around the world, but so many people live in spaces where they can't feel like they can express themselves.

[19:00] People have to live their truth in their basements or literally their closets. So I think that events like this give people, again, a tangible access to pride and to other people who are celebrating and experiencing this alongside them. So I think it's really exciting and beautiful. And I'm realizing I left out a huge part of this entire thing as well, because we just wanted to bring new people and we also wanted to make sure that we raised a bunch of money and we're able to give as much money of that possible back to global queer organizations that support global grassroots, LGBTQIA+ organizations around the world. So we partnered with Outright Action International and the first phone call that I made was to Antonius, so FoodMasku, to come on and curate a collection of leading queer and emerging artists so we could provide a platform for them to show their work, get curated with some other artists, get as much

[20:00] exposure as possible, and raise as much money as possible so that my next phone call was to the founders of OpenSea and asked them to waive all primary and secondary fees as a part of the collection to make sure that we're generating as much impact as we possibly can. And so FoodMasku has been tirelessly at work across so many different projects in support of the community and gracefully agreed to come on as the main curator of this project and I'm just so grateful for his support and the whole community's support and the auction is going to take place on June 28. Still timing on how long the auction will be is in process, but we're almost there in those final details. And so I'll end there. New people in as much platform and representation as possible for emerging queer artists and just super excited to be a part of this family and everything, David, that you've curated for this month and Iara,

[20:51] just major kudos. You're amazing to work with and be around and thank you for providing us this space. How exciting. I really love it and I love your vision of what, not what this can be, what this is going to be in the very near future and what we are all actively working to enable. So I think this is really exciting and I think it's the immediate future and speaking of the immediate future and what you just mentioned in terms of this art show, I would love to pass it over to FoodMasku, Antonius, another one of my favorite NFT artists in the space. We've gotten to work together and chat on a number of occasions, but really excited to see you popping up here at home in Decentraland and really excited about what you're bringing to the Metaverse. Would love to hear some of your perspective on your curatorial vision and yeah, where your mind's at right before we launch Decentraland Pride Month, or as we're launching

[21:43] Decentraland Pride Month, it's here, we're here. Hi, David. Hi, everybody. Happy Pride, everyone. My name is Antonius. I use he, him pronouns, but I'm better known on the internet as FoodMasku because about two years ago on a call like this, somebody got on with a pickle face filter they couldn't turn off, and they were really embarrassed, so I took my dinner and I put it on my face and that was the birth of FoodMasku. Before that, I was also doing other works of art in performance, and I decided to keep going with it and my pieces on Instagram started to go viral and somebody started to share it without my consent. So I remember the moment I Googled, how do you own something digital, and then NFTs came up and I started inventing NFTs and here I am today.

[22:31] I was one of the top -selling artists of the KnownOrigin platform, which has been very, very generous and kind to the LGBTQIA+ community, and now I get to help curate MetaPride Land, which is so amazing. I actually met Matt because Matt was taking a photo of my pieces that were being shown at TED conference, so the fact that I was there and Matt took my photo and he was like, hey, by the way, I'm doing this other thing, such a lucky coincidence. I also met Nicole because I was the only person organizing queer events at NFT NYC last year and I held a party at the Stonewall, which is the birth of Pride, really, and I also had a little pilgrimage to Keith Haring's bathroom at the LGBT Center where it's pretty graphic and really delicious.

[23:24] So I brought a lot of NFT artists into there and they got to see that original piece. So what I'm super excited about with the MetaPride Land curation is now I get to take this role as a curator and I really thought about the artists who have been working and have been creating, but may not necessarily have the funds to mint on Ethereum and they might not even have the knowledge to necessarily do that. So we put out an open call and we said, any work of art you may have and we actually got a bunch of artists who generally work in Tezos and also work in Solana and now we're saying like, hey, we're actually going to put you on the front page of OpenSea and it's going to be in Ethereum. So let's work together on this and I'm super excited about that because a lot of conversations I'm having with some of these people revolve around how uncomfortable they are because coming into the NFT space as a queer person, that's, as Jo mentioned,

[24:25] very difficult, but also having to explain NFTs to queer culture that doesn't necessarily like that kind of culture in general, that was very difficult and some of them tell me they lost their communities, they lost their friends that were on Twitch streams, they lost their friends that they used to talk to all the time because they started making NFTs. So I love that we're not only creating a safe space for them, but we're also claiming it back, basically, right? There is space for both crypto technology and also for being queer and we are creating it ourselves. So thanks so much for having me. Amen. I love it. Thank you so much, Antonius. I'm really excited to see all of the beautiful work that you're bringing to the blockchain, and I love the idea of trying to make Ethereum and major points of access, like the homepage of OpenSea, again, more accessible, specifically for members of the

[25:26] queer community who weren't a part of it. I love that you're not targeting, but actively looking within the Tezos community, Solana community, the alt chain communities where people are trying to put out work and they are actively putting out work and I'm sure many of them have collector bases, but I think this would expose them to a totally new audience and a much larger collector base that could potentially change lives. I love the potential to change lives and I think that's what we're talking about this month. When we can actually open things up to the general public in a way that's accessible and a way that's attainable, big, big, big things can happen and I'm really excited about seeing major organizations. Iara, I'd love to maybe delve in, if you'd like to, on some of the huge organizations that are going to be popping up over the next 30 days. We have major organizations coming in and really taking

[26:10] a stake in the game and then simultaneously, those stakes, I suppose, using a bit of a crypto mentality, maybe a paradigm, those stakes kind of facilitate artists from all backgrounds being able to bring their work to the blockchain and being able to hopefully sell and financially succeed from this whole ecosystem that we're building. So really excited about this, excited to delve into the conversation. I realized that while I did introduce myself, I never mentioned my pronouns or my background, so I will leave with that before we go into some questions. So once again, my name is David Cash. I'm here at Decentraland and my pronouns are they, them, he, him, she, her. I'm non -binary and I identify as any pronoun you'd like to call me. I'm a very specific point of view on gender. We'll address that in some of our other panels.

[27:00] But yeah, I went to an all -boys school growing up. I was in a fraternity and now I don't talk to that many cis men, to be honest, it's a different situation. We're in a different world, but it definitely gave me an interesting perspective. So yeah, very excited to initiate this round of conversations. We're gonna have eight panels over the next four weeks. I'm gonna be hosting six of them. We have some guest panels coming in as well. I'm really excited to share this round of programming with you. And I think this is such a perfect group of people to kick this off with. So if it's okay with everybody here, I'd love to take the remainder of this time to just ask at least one question and delve in a little bit further with each of our incredible panelists here because there is so much to cover. We could probably all talk for a day at least with all of the exciting things that we have planned and

[27:47] I know that we have. For the whole month. Exactly, exactly. But with that in mind, Iara, would you like to kick us off with maybe a little bit more information? Are there any specific events, partners, performances that you're personally really excited about? Maybe give us a little bit of a timeline of what we can expect over the next four weeks. Cool, yeah, sure. Well, obviously, MetaPride Land is a very, very big thing happening and I'm really excited about it because it's not just like a temporary thing on the month of June. I think it's really important to be like, to represent the community all year round. So I love that because we see a lot of brands well -intentioned by just looking at us during the month of June and then especially for artists and musicians, queer artists, for instance, being booked just for the month of June and they need to maximize their appearances as much as they can on that tiny space of 30

[28:57] days because then they get forgotten the whole year. So that's basically where they make their money. So I think this needs to change definitely and initiatives like MetaPride Land definitely would do as such and other initiatives that we already have in the community on Decentraland are already doing this. So I'm really, really happy about that. And so what we have, obviously, being a Latin American as well, myself, Thalía, it's very special. I grew up watching Thalía and I think she's amazing. Maybe I even had a crush on her, I can remember, but who wouldn't? We have some exciting NFTs.

[29:47] Yes, see? We have some amazing NFTs coming from her and her float is amazing. So we're going to have a Pride Parade on the 11th of June and that Pride Parade is going to be running 24 -7 from that point on until the 30th of June. So that will allow people to make their own tiny celebrations. Just remember to select the realm that you are with your friends. Then you can make your own private party around the festival land which will be like the Pride Zone or Pride area that we're going to call. And we have some amazing queer artists coming to the space. And obviously, it's not just about parties. I think those conversations that we're having in panel talks are really, really important.

[30:41] Like financial independency for queer artists and BIPOC people from the community and Web3 engagement of the queer community as well. So how can we make this space more representative, more diverse in all senses? And I think if we need more queer voices to raise questions and create features that will be relevant because if you have just one type of people building this, we would never have a safe, welcoming space for everyone. So definitely, we need more people and I love what you guys do in bringing kind of teaching people how to come to the space.

[31:31] That's fundamental and that's really what Decentraland is about as well, being a decentralized platform. We want to see people doing their own things there and being amazing, independent and growing the community. And then what else? We're going to have voguing, ballroom things and voguing plus capoeira, tango artists, so many things, drag queens, skins, avatars and things like that. So it's going to be amazing. And even we're going to have a kissing emote. So the first time in the metaverse, avatars will be able to kiss. It's going to be amazing. So yeah, being way different. And we have a cool initiative called City Hall of Love which is by Closeup, this toothpaste brand, right?

[32:31] So it's about letting people get married in the metaverse. So it's like a metaverse wedding. You don't get like a legal marriage certificate but you get an NFT. And that's really important because in many countries, same sex marriage is not allowed. Actually, the majority of the countries are not even a thing. So I was lucky, like in Brazil, I got married, I already divorced, but the year that was allowed there, like I got married and so on. It's important as well to be able to divorce, not just get married, but anyway.

[33:21] So I think we need all the rights, definitely. So the City Hall of Love, it's about being able to express the commitment to each other, if not in real life, at least in the metaverse. And I think this dignity that you can bring to people and couples and their relationships and validation of their love to each other, if they can at least get this somehow in the metaverse, it's so meaningful. And perhaps the real life will follow if we see those things. So yeah, I think, and there's so many things. You need to be there or be square. I love it, I love it. I'm so excited we're going to be there together, exploring all of these amazing activations.

[34:10] Also worth mentioning that once Pride Month launches, which is right now, you should be able to see a little rainbow -colored Decentraland icon, which you can click and jump in immediately to all the exciting events that are going to be happening live for each of these. I'm super excited about the Pride Parade, and I can't wait for that, but I do have to touch on one thing that you just mentioned, being this, not, yes, the kiss, but also the ability to at least get married in the metaverse. I think this is really beautiful. And piggybacking off of the points that we were discussing with Matt and FoodMasku, I think that this really brings a point of accessibility to the conversation. When we consider the metaverse, and especially when we consider broader conversations about the metaverse, people often look at it, and I talk about this a lot, people will vilify the metaverse as an escape from

[34:56] reality. But I think the use cases such as this really exemplify how the metaverse can add to people's lives by allowing us to do things that are physically impossible in our immediate surroundings. So if somebody's in a country, as you mentioned, where they can't get married, this can at least give them, as you so beautifully put, the dignity to be able to at least validate that themselves and personally be able to go through that with the person they love. So I think that's super exciting. I can't wait to see that become a reality. And yeah, it sounds like something you can all explore this month. So make sure you're following the Decentraland newsletter or Decentraland on Twitter, and you can access all of these exciting events over the course of the next 30 days. Beautiful, beautiful. Want to move it over to Nicole. Nicole, you and I have had the pleasure of having a few conversations together, and one thing that we've touched

[35:47] on in the past is coming from the internet, coming from a place of Tumblr, live streaming, gaming, anime, these kinds of virtual communities, and as Jo mentioned and as we've discussed briefly in this conversation, I think that online and virtual communities are really critical to the queer community. And as I mentioned earlier in this conversation, I think a lot of us met our partners, some of the first people we spoke to romantically, or even just the first people that we spoke to who were LGBTQ+ online or in virtual spaces. So I think when we're here in the metaverse, exploring the conversation of what does it mean to be queer in these virtual spaces, I really think it's nice to sometimes reflect and think back to our own personal stories. So without delving too much, you can share whatever you'd like, but do you have any stories you'd like to share or anything that you'd like to say on the

[36:37] idea of discovering queerness in virtual space? Oh, wow. Yeah, so I came out, I'm 31 now. I came out when I was probably like 13 or so, which at that time, it definitely, I don't think there was same -sex marriage anywhere. Or maybe I remember there might have been same -sex unions in Massachusetts, like Boston. And we're thinking like, man, I'm going to have to move to Massachusetts. When I was young, because I was like, this is the only place that I can go. But yeah, I mean, I remember, geez, just making friends online, probably through Gaia Online or something, I was going in all these little anime forums with other kids, and posting art, and playing games and stuff.

[37:41] And I met other queer people through that. And I guess that was my, my introduction, and I was like, oh, I think I might be queer. And it wasn't really like a scary thing for me. It wasn't something that, I guess I really got introduced to much before that. So it felt like pretty, I knew society was weird about it or whatever, but for me, it was just kind of like, oh, okay, I'm queer, that's cool. And told my friends, most of them were cool with it. And I came out pretty early, definitely got bullied and stuff like that, but I have some pretty tough skin. I grew up in New York, I didn't really care.

[38:32] And I was just like, all right, whatever. But yeah, I mean, finding these friends, if I hadn't been able to find friends online, even in school, talking to my friends in school and learning that a couple of my friends were also queer, we didn't talk about it before that. It just made me feel so much more comfortable. And even to this day, like talking to you guys, this is awesome. It is hard to, especially because it's not always visible, to find other queer people. And it's not something that we always will just talk about. It's not like, hey, I'm gay, what's your name? You know, like, so I think being able to have these events, these forums, like online events, in -person events, meeting people all over the world, especially people who might be more repressed in other countries that don't have same -sex marriage or many rights, I know even in the U .S. we struggle with, especially trans rights,

[39:42] you know, it just helps that awareness, it helps grow that awareness, it helps people feel more comfortable to come out, and overall it's just a really good thing. Very well said, very well said. I think it's really important, and I think that it's interesting how you mentioned it. A lot of us had these conversations, even with friends that we had, you know, IRL friends using our current verbiage. When we were young, we would have the actual conversations about us being queer, our identity, virtually. I remember when I was coming out to friends, you know, I could have totally done it in person. I was very lucky that I think a majority of my friends had no problem with it, but, you know, I definitely messaged them or texted them, or I did not do that face -to -face. That was a virtual interaction, 100%. So I think it's really important, you know, facilitating and allowing and creating spaces for these

[40:27] types of virtual interactions to happen and make them more comfortable. How can we facilitate that? So, beautiful, very well said, sorry to pry. I just think it's relevant, and, you know, people will appreciate it, I'm sure. You know, moving on to Jo, I'm sure that you have some thoughts on this. I know that you were, you know, like you mentioned, out on the chain before many of us, and I'd love to delve into your perspective, you know, seeing what Pride or what Pride Month has been like, you know, each year, maybe over the past, like, three or four years, you know, in your time. I'm really curious how you've seen the progression, and also, I cut you off, so if you had anything you wanted to share before that, that's also totally cool. No worries, I was just, you unlocked a core memory, Nicole, for me, remembering back in middle school, it must have been 2003 or 2004, which was, I think, Massachusetts and Iowa were the first places in the

[41:21] world besides the Netherlands to legalize gay marriage, and the Sims, and being able to kiss boys in the Sims, and then chatting with boys I'd never met online, or, you know, I was 12, and organizing Sims to meet up and kiss and fool around, and it was like the first time I'd ever seen that, virtually, or in any kind of print publication. I think before that, I'd only ever seen one queer couple in real life, and it was actually in Morocco, which they told me they were just holding hands, it's an Arab thing to do, and I saw them kissing, I was like, that's not holding hands. But it just, it unlocked that for me, and made me realize that, you know, up until that point, I'd never seen anything like that. But also, I think there's a huge play here with, or at least for me, with kissing emote that is gonna be open in Decentraland now, so I can't wait to explore that with my boyfriend, or if he's not coming along,

[42:19] I don't think that counts as cheating. Joking, Luis, if you join and see this. But yeah, so... Can I just interject and make a question? Wouldn't it be considered cheating if you kiss other avatars there, like, on the metaverse? No? I'm gonna say no, but because I'm working around it, but... All right. What do you think, Iara? Is it cheating? I don't think so. Do you think so, Iara? I don't think so. Yeah, no. It's an extension of my identity, but yeah. It's even... My avatar even has, like, a different hair color, eye color. So, I don't know.

[43:07] But go on. Sorry. Exactly. I'll have to address it. That's David's... That's David's mind. But yeah, so I've been watching PR for five years now, and just from 2018 to, like, 2012 is when I finally started seeing it. OpenSea would, you know, run these Twitter Spaces where they would recognize queer artists or even just during Pride Month, having OpenSea logo kind of phase just to port there. I have seen, however, that over the last two years there's, like, a rush of corporate pride to come in, and I have a lot of personal feelings about that and a lot of them being very blind or not under, you know, an awful little bit. But, you know, being insensitive to understanding, but it's a lot more than just laughing on a rainbow logo, which I think all of us recognize, but would actually be on just the rainbow logo.

[44:01] We're now having the progressive flag, which includes trans, intersex, as well as black and brown colors, and to include that marginalized community often left out. So really just kind of seeing the whole gamut, really, in the blockchain space, what was happening to the same conversation we already had, just having them now, again, in virtual spaces. But I have seen even just, well, one of my first experiences in PR was dealing with the fact that my name was J .O. I've got a lot of flack sometimes from just dealing with emails. People don't understand that I'm male identifying because I have a traditional name, which I find a bit silly, but it's always a treat when you hop on a Zoom and someone's like, oh, you're not a woman.

[44:47] I'm glad that I can say, like, a really weird, misogynist shit, and I'm like, okay, great. It's nice to know that I'll never talk to you again. Or, David, we had that experience when you were, and if you listened, I think it was, whether that awful journalist was the same number when I came to do it. But just awful things to do about being a queer -identified person in fashion. It just blows my mind that a moderator would show up to a fashion panel and treat you like that. So I still think we have a long ways to go in the crypto and blockchain space. No, absolutely. And I think that it's valuable feedback as well for the companies. I think the one thing that, the one thing I can say positively about this space is for the most part, I feel like people are open to change. Like, if you address a problem, I feel like, for the most part, people in this space will, again, for the most part, with many exceptions,

[45:37] take accountability. So I think it is our right, and without giving too many details into what you're referencing, I think that when people make mistakes, I think it's our job to call them out on it. Should it be our everlasting responsibility as queer people ourselves? No. But at least right now, I feel like it's our job to instigate it, and then in the hopes of making it commonplace so that when anybody sees it, similar to racism in many metropolitan cities, it's immediately called out on and criminalized, essentially. Here in Toronto, if people say a lot of things to me, I mean, I'm in a very liberal city. I'll be like, that's like this close to a hate crime like you should really stop talking right now because I'm going to call the police. I say that to people because I'm like, I will, and they will probably detain you. But I'm in Toronto, and Toronto is a very queer -positive city, so not every city is the same and not

[46:29] every culture is the same, so I always have to recognize that. But very well said, Jo. Also, with the interest of time, I want to make sure that we include all of our guests, and there's so much more to say. Matt, there's so much I want to ask you about, and I know that you're going to be on at least one of these other panels, hopefully. So I want to ask you one specific question, and it's around this IRL event that you're involved with in New York. I think it's really exciting tying in the physical component. As I mentioned with Nicole, anything happening during New York, during Pride Month, is really important, from my perspective, for the queer community, for history. New York has been such a pivotal city in the queer rights movement over decades, and now I feel like Pride every year is such a huge to -do. It's one of the biggest media events for the queer community in the world, and I'm really interested to see

[47:17] how, I mean, obviously, you have a big background in media. You've worked for many different publications, Condé Nast publications, and I'm interested how you see this year being really different, A, bringing this to the metaverse, so bringing it to a broader audience, but also just this intersection of New York and the metaverse. I feel like it's really interesting, so I'd love to hear some of your perspective on that. Yeah, so, again, it's like bringing that physical audience back or bringing them into the digital world for the first time, and so what we've done, I think that's really unique, or to try to engage people that are at the physical event, because it wasn't about 15 ,000 to 20 ,000 people come through the event space in Brooklyn, and it's at the Avant Gardner, which is just an amazing space that hosts all sorts of queer representation, all sorts of musical and entertainment events, period.

[48:02] Only 20 ,000 people, small event, over the two days, and so they just redid the Brooklyn Mirage, which is the outdoor venue, and actually, in Decentraland, we have recreated that exact venue, so as people are experiencing it, in Decentraland, and in real life, and we're going to have the stream going both ways, you're seeing this kind of familiar space, so I wanted to make sure that those that were engaging in the Metaverse for the first time didn't feel like it was those misconceptions of what it means to engage in a digital space, and that they can engage in it in a pretty authentic way, very similar to how they would engage with it in real life, so that was a big thing that we were super excited about pulling off, and then being in New York, I mean, New York is home for me, I've been in New York for my whole life, I was originally from upstate New York, and then I'm here, so it's what I had the most immediate access to,

[48:52] to be able to pull off within six to eight months, and without Jake Resnicow, none of it would be possible, but the goal, to your point, with MetaPride as a whole is to be always on, like we're starting with this June, but my long -term goal is when there is a Pride Festival in Japan, we're able to do the same thing now, or in Australia, or in South Africa, or anywhere around the world, we're able to take those same experiences and make them accessible to the global queer community, because I just feel like, with Nicole was saying, being able to engage with other queer folks was so educational for me, and eye -opening, and I feel like I learn new things every day, because platforms like this and others exist, and without access to those, we're kind of still stuck in our little silos, like, you know, being gay is the best part about my life, but we also can be pretty terrible to each other,

[49:39] as well within the community, because we just don't spend time with each other enough, so any opportunity to be kind of just like, smash all of ourselves together and continue learning, I'm all here for, and then I would be remiss if I didn't just follow up on one thing that Jo said, because as you guys get to know me more, I am very direct and honest also, and having come from media and entertainment and working with advertisers and sponsors, like, MetaPride is entirely self -funded. Like, we went out and tried to get corporate sponsors for six, seven months, in both the crypto space and from traditional sponsors, and a lot of them are still viewing Pride as 30 days in June, and disenfranchising our community and erasing it in the same ways that it's happening in the early stages of Web3, but we have an opportunity to control that conversation by bringing more representation in, but I talk to a lot of the leading crypto exchanges and

[50:27] platforms that have bankrolled billions of dollars over the past five years that are still not there in making an authentic investment long -term and representation. Things are changing. We are absolutely making progress, and it is amazing, but I just always like to remind with the good and the bad that there's always more work to do, and this is never going to end, and it has never ended for other disenfranchised communities that have much less opportunities than us as queerspokes for here and around the world. So I'm just super thankful, super excited, and it's just the beginning. Like, I really feel like we are just getting started. We always talk about how early it is, and people always say, yeah, we're in our infancy, and I'm like, we're in, like, gestation. Like, we haven't even got started yet, and so I like to keep that frame of mind, because I think there's so much potential positive opportunity and problems.

[51:17] Fabulous. So excited to see this come to light, and part of all the beautiful things that you're planning is obviously the amazing curation done by FoodMasku himself. FoodMasku, I really want to touch on, you know, when we're talking about, you know, creating space for the community and really, you know, paving the way for Web3, which, Matt, I think you're doing a fabulous job. Like, really, congratulations. I think that, you know, Antonius, you were somebody that I saw last year, and I'm sure before, but definitely last year, you know, when a lot of people were not doing anything for Pride, I saw you taking a ton of initiatives, as you mentioned, even IRL initiatives, but I think you were one of the first artists I saw, you know, partnering with some of the Web3 brands for Pride activations, and I think that's because you're so vocal and you're so authentically yourself, you know, which I think is inherent to you and your

[52:01] brand, but what would you say in terms of, you know, obviously this year is different. We all feel it, you know, obviously a big part of that is there's way more people in the space, so thereby there's way more queer people in the space, but I'm curious, you know, in your interactions with artists, curating this event and just leading up to Pride, wondering what your perspective was this year in particular, you know, with last year and past activations as a reference point. So I would be remiss if I don't shout out my good friend and someone who's been helping me curate this whole thing, Royal Urban Graffiti Art, who actually had done another large event before, so taking them on and having them help me out has been integral, and I also want to shout out Nicole.

[52:51] Yeah. We all love Royal so very much, and I also want to shout out Nicole. I love you, Royal. Thank you so much for saying that. NFT spaces started. So when I saw you start minting NFTs on Foundation, which was where I started too. I was like, maybe I'm on the right track here and maybe I won't be completely alone. And I think one thing we don't talk enough about is generational wealth and how important it is for queer people to get money for their art, because it is such a difficult thing to be an artist in New York, right? And it's just even harder to be a queer artist and not be taken seriously many, many times, especially for our transgender artists, our non -binary artists, and our female artists, because it is so hard to be an artist in general and then coming into an NFT space and having this opportunity.

[53:46] So I think the biggest difference this year is many artists like myself who are queer had a very successful year, and I am fortunate enough to have budgeted like 20 % of my funds to be able to give back to the queer community and also to collect some really cool art. So I think that's the biggest change I saw this year. And we're right now in a bare market, but it's also the largest opportunity to create generational wealth. So I don't think we talk enough about money. And I think that that is actually a very important part of empowering queer people in the NFT space. Absolutely. And of course, we have a conversation. Check the schedule. We do have a conversation coming up about financial empowerment for the queer community.

[54:35] I'm 100 % on board with you. I think that one of the things that NFTs and Web3 are really pushing out of the window is this idea and this glamorification, glamorization, any of these words, of the starving artist. And I think that, especially for the queer community, this has been something that a lot of people have ended up, a lifestyle that people have chose not out of choice, but out of just situation. And it's just kind of a reality that people will fall into and then thereby glamorize because it's the only choice. So I think the fact that people can be authentic and create an art practice in any style from 3D to performance art, as we see here in this call right now, and actually be financially successful and independent off of that, that's incredible.

[55:22] That's one of the things that this is all facilitating. And I really hope to see so much more of that, specifically for the queer community, not just this month, but all the time. We make up such a small percentage of the world. And as mentioned by so many of our incredible panelists, so many of us are in disenfranchised situations, places, times, whatever the case may be for you and where you are in the world. So I think that NFTs and the metaverse and the blockchain, just being able to do things beyond just the traditional internet, this is all really empowering. And it's just the beginning of Pride Month. There are so many activations and shows and people activating over the next 30 days that you can get involved with and you can interact with. One of the things I always like to mention just before we end this conversation, because I know we are running a little bit over, but one of the things I love to

[56:09] mention when we're here in Decentraland is we are in an interactive environment. So here over the month of Pride, please look around you right now during this panel. There's so many people around you. Interact with those people. These are all real humans. Here, many of them, I'm sure, who are immediately around you right now are part of the community and interacting right now in virtual space. So I hope to kick off a whole bunch of conversations. Really excited about this month. And just before we end, if everybody maybe wants to just give one last plug or event or something, what's the one thing this month that everybody has to see? If we would just want to do one quick fire round, Iara, what's one thing from your perspective that people have to see if they're attending Metaverse Pride this month? All right. Well, first I want to say some key takeaways, I think, is buy from us, hire us, pay us.

[57:00] You know, that's basically it. No free work. Stop asking for free work as well. You know, you need to honor hard work. And it's just not like one, you know, it's like if you think of a musician, it's not just that 30 minute gig, one hour gig. It's like many years of learning an instrument or recording music. Same goes for all the arts. You know, for someone to draw like beautifully, it takes them years, you know. And so we need to admire this. And it's not just, you know, that minute that they took or whatever to arrive to that point, you know, so many things, so much investment, tears and blood and whatever.

[57:49] But anyway, so one thing I actually wanted to mention is that it's about the ability also to express gender identity as well in the Metaverse, that you can do it more freely than in other spaces, unfortunately, still. But one cool thing that one of the sponsors that bring into the space Mastercard, they are actually now allowing people to have the social name on the card. And sometimes that would be the only way that they actually feel the dignity of getting the proper name because the country they're in the social name. So yeah, I just want to highlight those things because there's like, it's so much more than just, you know, fun and games and so on.

[58:41] So many things are so important for the community. So yeah, again, it's about dignity. And so I want to highlight everything that the community is gonna do as well. Like not just foundation and we are getting to know the initiatives organically being made by the community. And it's so beautiful. I feel touched by it because, and the more independent people are, it's like the more surprised you are with the amazing things they can bring together. So I just would like to highlight that. It's amazing to be part of Decentraland and see how the decentralized platform can really elevate the community like that, you know, to bring the best to the space.

[59:39] So yeah, let's build the metaverse together. Absolutely. Thanks for that Iara. Nicole, what's one, I mean, I just want to ask one more time to the people. When are the two gallery shows dropping if anybody's gonna be in New York? Yeah, so Thursday, June 9th is Icons and SuperTrans at the SuperRare Gallery in Soho. And then Friday, June 10th, and Thursday, June 24th, we're doing a brunch during NFT NYC for my solo show. All this stuff is on my Twitter, all over my Twitter. So go check it out there. RSVP, I want to see everyone. Very, very excited. Fabulous. Thanks so much, Nicole.

[1:00:29] Excited to see you in New York. Very excited. Jo, you know all of the exciting things happening this month. What's one thing that you cannot wait for? I cannot wait for all of the wearables that a lot of the designers, decentralized independent designers, but also some of the brands like Mastercard has some really cool stuff. I don't even fully understand it conceptually, so I'm excited to visually see it. This is Alpha people. This is Alpha. Look out for the wearables. Any time you're at MetaPride Land or anywhere else within Decentraland during the month, be on the lookout for wearables. Thalía specifically. There are some free ones. There's some not free ones. But I think the guitar bra is the one that's free. There's a limited amount, but I'm super excited to get that from there.

[1:01:16] So cool. It's a bra with little guitars. Can't wait. Can't wait. Thanks so much, Jo. I love my... I have entirely too many wearables. People who know me know that. So I'm going to get a whole bunch more this month. So I'm ready. Matt, what are you excited for? Please tell everybody. For one more time for the people in the back, what are the key dates that we have to attend this coming month? Key dates for MetaPride Land are June 24th and 25th is when live performances will start streaming and we'll have the full lineup posted as soon as the ROS is locked on our Twitter and on our Discord channel and everywhere else to make sure it's as accessible as possible. And then the two other just plugs that I would give that I think are super important about this month is the collection. All the proceeds of the collection, the net proceeds of the collection are going to Outright Action International.

[1:02:03] And if you have not engaged with Outright Action International in Katy from that organization who's head of giving, she has been so engaged with the queer community in Web3 and so supportive of emerging and leading artists in the space that there's just a major shout out to them. And then the one other one that I want to say is Unstoppable Domains has also been an amazing partner for us on the back end and they have provided or they are providing free domains for anybody that engages with MetaPride Land both in the physical and the digital space. So we'll have emails going out about all of that and promotion of that on our social channels so that everybody globally can have access to their own digital identity and show up and secure that how they see fit. So very excited about those two things and very excited to call to come and see you next week at the SuperRare Show because I'm definitely going to be there and very

[1:02:48] excited just to see, I think this month is crazy, right? It's like Pride and then it's NFT NYC which is like a madhouse of kind of like Pride in Mayhem which is like amazing and beautiful and so I think there's just so much to look forward to and I can't wait to hang out with you all more all month long. Absolutely. Can't wait to have you back on more of these panels and I can't wait to see you in New York. Thanks so much for joining us, Matt. Now last but certainly not least, I mean FoodMasku, if there's anything else from your activation you want to mention please, but otherwise, are there any words of wisdom you'd like to leave us with as we kick off Pride Month? My favorite experience when a friend of mine from Northern Mainland China came to visit New York, we went to a gay bar and it was boring and I said, let's go to the other gay bar and he's like, there are other gay bars and that's the best part about

[1:03:35] this experience. I think there are so many more options. So I'm going to shout out two more options for you. 50 millimeter collective. That is by Raven Tramiel and they're having a bunch of events that's going to happen and also KnownOrigin also has a build in Decentraland. I got to see a little inside peaks and I love it so far. I've seen only a little clips of it. But again, that's the best part about this experience. You now have options, people. You can go to different things. You don't have to go to just one gay event and June isn't going to be the only queer event a month in the year. Absolutely. Ending on a high note, I love that. I want to thank all of our panelists for taking the time out of their very busy schedules to join us here today. I want to thank everybody who took time to come and watch this. Happy Pride, everybody. So excited to kick off Pride here in Decentraland in the

[1:04:26] Metaverse. So excited for everything we have in store. Please follow along on Twitter and on the lovely rainbow icon that you can access at the very top right hand of your screen. Again, my name is David Cash. Thank you again to everybody and we'll see you in the next panel. Talk to you all soon. Ciao.