Franky Nines on SupDucks, Dapper Labs, and NFT Communities | NFTS.WTF Interview

NFTS-WTF Interviews
Written By David Cash

Franky Nines, creator of SupDucks, on going from games and app design to Dapper Labs and VeeFriends, and why community and honest promises decide which NFT projects last.

Interviewed by David Cash. Book David to host, moderate, or speak: https://davidcash.ca

Recorded at ETH Denver 2022, his third ETH Denver, Franky Nines talks with David Cash about how the hackathon crowd changed once the NFT boom arrived. He traces his path from college in the Bay Area and the games industry to a 2017 hackathon to design a crypto wallet, which turned into a move to London, then to two years at Dapper Labs after CryptoKitties appeared. He worked with NFT42 and was lead designer on VeeFriends with Gary Vee before launching SupDucks, the PFP project he drew himself. Franky and David talk about experience as a formula, why community is everything, why builders should spend time in other communities (and get burned) before running their own, how brands stall without Web3 culture, and his main advice: don't promise what you can't pull off.

Watch on YouTube

Chapters

  1. 00:00 Intro at ETH Denver with Franky Nines
  2. 0:27 His third ETH Denver
  3. 1:17 From ETH Berlin to the NFT boom
  4. 3:09 College in the Bay Area and the games industry
  5. 4:14 A wallet hackathon and a move to London
  6. 5:12 CryptoKitties and two years at Dapper Labs
  7. 6:20 NFT42 and VeeFriends
  8. 6:50 Launching SupDucks
  9. 7:40 Experience as a formula
  10. 9:35 Community is everything
  11. 11:23 Get burned before you build
  12. 12:45 Web3 culture and why brands stall
  13. 13:52 What not to do
  14. 15:31 Wrap-up

Speakers

  • David Cash, interviewer and editor-in-chief, NFTS.WTF
  • Franky Nines, artist and creator of SupDucks; NFTS.WTF DAO member

Key topics

  • ETH Denver 2022
  • Hackathon culture before and after the NFT boom
  • Games industry to blockchain
  • Dapper Labs and CryptoKitties
  • NFT42 and VeeFriends
  • Launching SupDucks
  • Community and reputation
  • Learning from losses in Web3
  • Web3 culture and brands
  • Overpromising and regulatory gray areas

In their words

"Community is everything, right?" Franky Nines

"Don't promise anything that you can't actually pull off." Franky Nines

How to cite

APA: Cash, D. (2022). Franky Nines on SupDucks, Dapper Labs, and NFT communities [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/ld_DzfyeLcQ

Chicago: Cash, David. "Franky Nines on SupDucks, Dapper Labs, and NFT Communities." Recorded 2022, Denver. YouTube video, 16:04. https://youtu.be/ld_DzfyeLcQ.

About NFTS.WTF

NFTS.WTF was a Web3 culture publication and interview series edited by David Cash. It covered artists, collectors, and builders during the 2021–2022 NFT boom. It ran for two years and closed after a board decision by the NFTS DAO, which left many of its interviews unpublished.

More interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@davidcash888/playlists

Recording details

Recorded 2022 at ETH Denver, Denver, Colorado. Originally published on NFTS.WTF, March 2022. This edition: archival re-release with chapters and captions, 2026.

Transcript

Machine-transcribed and reviewed. Timestamps link to the moment in the video.

[0:14] My name is David Cash, Editor-in-Chief, and today I'm super happy to be joined by one of our DAO members. We've got Franky Nines in the house. Very happy to have you here. Sup, sup, sup. Joined in Denver for ETH Denver. Super exciting. How have you been enjoying your time here so far and what are you excited about? Oh man, I mean, yeah, this is my third ETH Denver, so I've been coming to not only this conference, but even the ETH Global conferences. So every time it's like conference season, I'm like, oh, see old friends, make new friends, and then get, you know, get to hack and obviously get some swag, go to some cool parties. So, no, it's good. I'm excited to, I'm excited to go crunch some code and, you know, check out some of these bounties and, you know, actually be productive this time. And at NFT NYC, I was just in party mode. Well, there were too many parties, there were like three a day. No boats, though. No boat parties, though. Yeah, we're a little landlocked now.

[1:07] Awesome. I mean, I'm curious to hear from your perspective, like how things have changed, because obviously if you were at one of these before the pandemic versus now, I'm wondering if you've noticed any change since the whole NFT boom being here. I mean, definitely. You know, like I was started coming to conferences in 2017 and 2018. I went to ETH Berlin. That was like my first like Ethereum specific conference. And then, you know, shortly after was in ETH SF and then ETH Denver and just like, you know, bounced around. And I mean, it's it's a completely different scene. Like, it really is up until like last before the pandemic. Every conference you went to, it was all the same group of people. So it was like a high school reunion every single time. All of those people now that were doing the hackathon and building projects and like doing like I mean, you know, some of the big funded large platforms that we have today, I was at the hackathons when they were building those.

[2:01] And now and now they're just like all those people are like mad famous. You can't find them. They're like throwing like crazy events. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, man, I miss all my old like DJ friends. But no, it's dope. It's definitely it's definitely changed. I mean, ETH Denver right now, it is packed down there. It is crazy. I can barely get upstairs. Yeah. It's nuts. We're on the top floor here. Yeah, it's nuts. That's really crazy. But no, it's very cool. I mean, it's it's pretty indicative. I mean, you saw the same thing at NFT NYC. Yeah. I mean, like last year versus this year. I think this year they had over 10,000 people there. Here. I don't know how many people have been there. Thousands of people. I mean, every single person you see outside that they're like, is there something going on? Like, what's this or something? They don't even ask. They're like, what's this conference going on? Yeah. Obviously, you're all wearing, you know, like lanyards and stuff. There must be something happening. That's what I told my Uber driver. I'm like, you see all the people down on Broadway? That's where I'm going. He's like, what is that? Like, you probably know, it only happens in ETH Denver.

[2:55] But I mean, like you've been in the space for a while. You've done a whole bunch of different things. I mean, you've gone from the commercial side to like launching your own NFT project. You've done a whole bunch of things. You're a collector. You're an artist. I'd love to hear just for the people listening, you know, we got an audience of a whole bunch of different people. People have been in the space for a while. People are new to the space. So I'd love to hear from your perspective, you know, what you would say was your start in NFTs. If you maybe had like a crypto backstory, it'd be cool to hear that too. But we'd love to hear your like start in NFTs and maybe how you got to where you're at now. Yeah. So like, you know, I was in college in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley during like 2006, seven, eight, you know, nine. I was working in the gaming industry. So I was already like in the entertainment, gaming, like I worked at Zynga. And virtual worlds already made sense to you. Yeah, exactly. Like my first company I worked for was a company like right after Club Penguin got acquired by Disney. So there's this huge boom of these like little massive multiplayer like kids games and you know, I was I was a visual artist.

[3:48] So I was already in like, you know, the like high visual side of technology, you know, and I did app development stuff and I ended up working in like an agency. We built products for a bunch of clients, you know, a lot of celebrity work, did a lot of collaboration work and then a buddy of mine who's actually down running the merch shop. He, in 2017, it was like, hey, do you want to do this contest, this hackathon? He's like, it's to design a crypto wallet. And like I knew I knew what crypto was like, you know, I knew what you had to back up from the apps and stuff. Well, yeah, I could build apps. But like I knew what Bitcoin was, you know, from like homies that were doing some shady shit on the internet type of thing. But like I never I had no idea how to make a Bitcoin wallet, you know, and like I didn't even really know what Ethereum was. And sure enough, you know, we did we do the contest, we win and that turned into a tier two visa and moving to London.

[4:41] And this was for a company that just ICOed in the end of 2017. So we're working there, you know, hacking and from that piece coming in, you know, coming from web and mobile games and moving into, you know, blockchain and understanding tokens and protocols and things like that. Like the education was just like, to where you learn more and more and more, you start to drink from the firehose for a while. You start to build like a crazy passion of like, it's almost like crypto is like its own religion. Right. Like you start to build such a deep passion to where you're like, I'm never going back, you know. But yeah, in late 2017, we're all minting Ethereum and putting it on my ether wallet. And the next thing I know, like gas is like crazy. Transactions are failing and everyone's like, what's going on? And it's these CryptoKitties started popping up. And when I saw it, because I came from gaming and visual art, I was like, I know exactly what that is. I was like, I know exactly what they're doing, how that works, all that stuff. So I ended up applying for a job and I was at Dapper Labs for two years.

[5:41] So perfect timing. Yeah. Yeah. And I ended up moving back to the US and then I was working just directly under the chief creative. I was doing a lot of pitch deck work, did a lot of concept work on new products. Again, like Flow was still in development. So we were trying to solve problems. How do you build games on Ethereum or on blockchain in general? And, you know, layer two and like side chain stuff is still very early. So it was the game initially. Yeah, you can read them as the game. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's a very different model. You know, it's slow, it's expensive. It's it's like there's, you know, it's the the the writing and retrieval of data is. On paper it's not scalable, but then all of a sudden there's two million crypto kiddies. Right. Exactly. So, you know, and then that just that spiraled into, you know, after after that, you know, worked with a couple other companies, ended up working with Jimmy at NFT 42, which led me to being the lead designer on VeeFriends with Gary Vee.

[6:35] So helped him build his collectible system and did the UI and kind of helped help build that project project and bring it to life. And then, yeah, it was just like, all right, like what I'm in between things right now. I was working on nameless and I was like, you know, what do I want to do? And I was like, you know, Bored Apes was out and a buddy of mine, he DM me on Twitter and was like, hey, you should make a SupDucks PFP project. And I was like, all right, let's do it. Let's build a team. And I mean, it went quick because, you know, already I knew what we needed to do to make it happen because of all my experience. So I was like, all right, I need Dev for this. I need a front end guy for this. Here's gonna be the art pipeline. I did all the artwork. We dropped it. And then, boom, the next thing I know, it's like we have a full company and we have a crazy discord. And yeah, it's all getting recognized on the street. People are like, set up your brand new nines. And I'm like, I know I am true. No, that's awesome. That's awesome.

[7:31] And I mean, yeah, I think it's really interesting how once you've gone through the process of, you know, building out an NFT project, it almost becomes like your own personal formula. And like, you kind of know what to do. You know, I would wonder from your perspective, do you attribute any of your like, know how I'm doing all this, like, would you like corporate work or client work, I suppose, and then moving into your own thing? Do you think that background allowed you to do what you're doing? Yeah, I definitely because, you know, I do some Twitter spaces and interviews here and there, and people are like, you know, I've actually done some talks, too, for a couple of virtual conferences. And people are like, you know, like, how do you define and approach success, right? Because a lot of projects, they launch and they, you know, they don't mint out or they, you know, they, they, people, people have grand ideas, but the execution is key, right? And that's something that you just don't magically just like pick up, right? Like sometimes you get lucky, but a lot of the time it's strategic, like know how. And when you look at the projects that are like in the top charts and you look at projects that are, you know, winning, essentially look at the backgrounds of the people building those, like they have real experience, right?

[8:37] You're getting people from like legit big blue companies and, you know, like, you know, Instagram right before they were. Now they're doing DJ and stuff and, you know, making five X of the money they've ever made in their life. And, you know, just call it down this crypto rabbit hole. So yeah, 100% like it, you know, it, it, that skill is, you know, all that experience. Because I'm asking that question to lead to, because, you know, I talk a lot about how, you know, NFT projects these days, a lot of people will kind of in their thought process, they'll end when the drop goes live. Like, okay, we got to the drop and that's done, but really a successful NFT project is a 360 media company that you've built and built a community around. And the NFT is the, is the product or like the, you know, the corralling factor that everybody's here for, but it's really about what you've built and what you're going to do. So I feel like you've done a great job of that. And I wonder if you had any, maybe not tips, but like any thoughts on, on what would be required if you're putting together an NFT project, like what elements do you need? Obviously you need a discord, but to build a successful community, at least from your perspective, what is maybe a key ingredient?

[9:35] Yeah. I mean, I, I definitely, when people ask me, you know, what are the most important pieces to this? I'm like community is everything, right? Even your own personal, like social reputation is a lot, right? Like getting people, like when we launched, uh, SupDucks, like some of the first mentors were all people that I knew from the industry and they're like, oh shit, you're dropping one of these. It's going to be dope. Like they knew, right? So they were like ready to ape in. Yeah. And they, they knew my work, they knew my background. So like there was definitely like that reputation piece, you know, and I think for people it's. It's I've, I've given this advice as well as you're not going to know how to build and run a community. You're not going to know how to build and run an NFT project unless you've been in one and or in a lot of communities and you've interacted in the space. Like that's the difference between this technology boom.

[10:32] And like, I would say the traditional booms is like, it's so community focused. It's so like, you know, there's, there's scam and there's trust and there's, there's transparency. And like, if you don't, if you don't have any experience in that, like you've never been in a discord, you've never like attended an AMA, you've never like been on a Twitter space. You're not going to know how to do that when it's your turn. Overwhelming. You're not going to know how to do it when it's your turn. Right. And that's, those are all like key pieces to it aside from, you know, fire art, uh, you know, uh, dope, dope marketing strategy, even if it's just, you know, like a little viral campaign or it's just sharing with your friends or whatever. It's like with anything, how do you get that out to people? Right. You know, so yeah, I think the number one thing that I would say is like, you got to be in it to know how to do it, you know, and it's like not even necessarily just creating stuff.

[11:23] Like you have to, I actually, I had a joke with the, with the, with this guy I was working with, he got hired, he was fresh to the NFT space. And I was like, look, man, until you've, until you've spent over a hundred grand in NFTs and gotten hacked and gotten burned for like, you know, 50 K, I can't really trust your opinions in this space. And I was just giving him a hard time, but it's, it's kind of true. I've lost so much, you know, private keys I've lost and like, uh, things I've accidentally sold and like all those mistakes have now like made it. So I know exactly what I'm doing, what I'm doing it, you know? So yeah, no, a hundred percent. I was even going to say, like when you're saying, um, people who are entering the space, they have to have experienced communities. I almost have to, I almost say like, you have to have experienced community and honestly like witnessed or being a part of some kind of a failure or some kind of a process maybe didn't work out. So I'll just, you can see how that goes and how you come back from that so that you don't do that, you know, you're coming about properly.

[12:16] No, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I think that, you know, something interesting in your case is, um, specifically your background at Dapper Labs and then, you know, NFT 42 and all of that, but I think Dapper Labs, um, you know, I see the way you've kind of roll out a project and there's this like narrative and you know, there, there are the obvious elements. And I think what you're, when you're mentioning like the good art and the great marketing strat, you kind of have to have that if you even want to have a semi successful project and things like there's, there's no way around that. But then everything else that comes around that, you know, the real, I'm not going to say commodification, but like the web three company mentality. How do you take this and turn it into like a business? Exactly. You've definitely reflected that. Yeah. So I think that's quite interesting. Yeah. It's also, it's a, it's a culture movement, right? Web three culture, Ethereum culture, NFT culture is its own thing, right? It's its own basis. A little bit like it's, it's kind of crazy. Like, you know, like I think in that, and you can see it though, like with the current boom that's happening where you have these big, big artists and you have big corporations getting in big brands, getting into the space, like they only succeed to a certain level. And then you can see the reflection in their, their floor prices, boom, you know, or if their projects aren't selling or something, it's because they, they don't have the web three culture that everybody is like in love with. It's that authenticity, right?

[13:30] We're all going to make it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And there, there is that. And I feel like, you know, some of the people today have even talked about that, you know, some of the people noticing, um, ETH Denver this year versus previously ETH Denver's, you know, there's a lot more project, but there's also a lot more, you know, FUD and kind of like false attempts and people trying to like use just a bunch of buzzwords like, oh, I'm going to do, you know, a PME DAO, you know, play to earn game. And it's like, oh, what does that entail? Yeah, that's a lot of stuff. Yeah, like really? Even just making a DAO is like already a lot of work. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, maybe just like one last thing to leave people with, like for all the people who are here at ETH Denver, just in general, who are trying to attend these conferences, start their projects, um, what would you tell them not to do? Ooh, because everybody says, what are you going to do? What would tell them? What would you tell somebody not to do right now? Well, don't promise anything that you can't actually pull off that, that I think is, I think that's the most important piece. And I think that the reason being is one is being good at setting your own expectations and setting the expectations of others, right?

[14:29] And being able to actually like nail those, you know, to, to, to get those goals out, build your, again, your reputations, build your authenticity, like it builds, say you're going to do something and then you actually do it. The community recognizes that you have to do it right. And so, you know, it's, it's that and it's, you know, we're still in a very gray space in terms of the regulation. And, you know, is this a security? Is it a utility? Like, what are these things? And when you start promising increase in value or you start promising things that, you know, people are going to speculate is going to increase value. Now you're starting to play into some muddy waters that, you know, could completely change in a year. Are you a licensed financial advisor all of a sudden? Right, yeah, yeah. Are you, yeah, do you like, you know, there's, there's law behind this and it's, you know, I think, yeah, don't, you know, don't promise anything that you're not going to be able to, you know, pull off and don't bite off more than you can chew, honestly. And I mean, it sounds obvious, but I think that, that honestly is very important for a lot of people in the space right now, because, you know, we're all, we're all kind of in the space and it's moving so fast and we all want to do everything, but only do what you're able to actually do, especially if you're starting out at 2 o 'clock. That's awesome. I think that's a beautiful thing to leave people with.

[15:33] I really appreciate you making the time out of your hacking. I hope it goes super well. I got a lot of caffeine to drink. I'm still waking up from last night. I'm doing some judging on Sunday, so it'd be hilarious if we end up doing that. I hope that happens. Hell yeah. I'll judge favorably. I don't even know what that means, but hey, I'm stoked to be here. Very nice to meet you IRL and yeah, thanks again for doing this. As always, we're here with NFTS.WTF. Thanks again, Franky, for doing this and appreciate everybody. Have a great rest of your day. Live from ETH Denver.

David Cash https://www.davidcash.ca