Exploring Gender in the Metaverse | Decentraland Pride 2022

Four trans and non-binary artists join David Cash for the second panel of Decentraland's Metaverse Pride 2022: Laurel Charleston, Klara Vollstaedt, MTHRTRSA, and SamJ. They talk about exploring gender through avatars and 3D work, the YouTube creators who showed them what was possible, why organizations should fund trans artists directly, who collects their art, and how Laurel's SuperTrans exhibition on SuperRare came together.

Watch on YouTube

Chapters

1. 00:00 Welcome: gender in the metaverse
2. 01:29 Laurel Charleston introduces herself
3. 03:14 Klara Vollstaedt introduces herself
4. 04:48 MTHRTRSA introduces herself
5. 06:36 SamJ introduces themself
6. 09:46 Digital bodies and gender expression
7. 14:31 Finding queer role models online
8. 21:24 Fund trans artists, and stop asking for donated work
9. 32:04 Who collects queer and trans art
10. 47:36 Trans innovators and community in Web3
11. 53:08 From a Brooklyn drag show to fundraising NFTs
12. 1:00:09 Where to find their work

Speakers

• Laurel Charleston, Artist and curator; curator of SuperTrans on SuperRare
• Klara Vollstaedt, 3D artist
• MTHRTRSA (Mother Teresa), Photographer, drag artist, and Brooklyn show producer
• SamJ, Artist; the first drag artist on SuperRare
• David Cash, Curator, Decentraland Foundation (host)

Key topics

• Avatars, VRChat, and exploring gender in a digital body
• Growing up with queer YouTube creators
• Moving from painting to 3D art during transition
• Paying trans artists directly, and the problem with asking them to donate work
• Curating SuperTrans with 11 trans, non-binary, and gender nonconforming artists
• What the NFT market rewards, and who collects queer and trans art
• Trans artists as early innovators in digital and crypto art
• Drag shows, fundraising, and MTHRTRSA's Divas collection

In their words

"If you want to empower communities, fund them, give them resources" (Laurel Charleston)

"I really do honestly view myself as like a paper doll." (SamJ)

How to cite

APA: Cash, D. (2022). Exploring Gender in the Metaverse | Decentraland Pride 2022 [Video]. YouTube. https://youtu.be/0P13laU24Rw

Chicago: Cash, David. "Exploring Gender in the Metaverse | Decentraland Pride 2022." Recorded June 6, 2022; aired June 7, 2022, Decentraland. YouTube video, 1:09:40. https://youtu.be/0P13laU24Rw.

Recording details

Recorded: June 6, 2022, Riverside.fm; aired June 7, 2022, Decentraland

Format: Panel recorded for Decentraland Metaverse Pride 2022

Length: 1:09:40 · Language: English

Curated and hosted by David Cash for the Decentraland Foundation

About the series

Decentraland Metaverse Pride 2022 was a month of programming in Decentraland in June 2022. David Cash, then Curator for the Decentraland Foundation, curated and hosted this panel series. The panels were pre-recorded and aired on the rooftop of the Cash Labs gallery in Decentraland. Five panels are archived here.

About this record

Presented as edited for the original 2022 broadcast, with captions added in 2026. Captions were machine-transcribed and reviewed by hand, with names checked against speaker introductions. Speaker roles are as of the recording date and may have changed since.

Shared for educational, research, and archival purposes. For corrections, name spellings, or removal requests: david@cashlabs.io

Transcript

Machine-transcribed and reviewed. Timestamps link to the moment in the video.

[0:06] Hello everybody, welcome to the second panel of Decentraland's Pride Month, very excited to be here. My name is David Cash, I'm the curator of the Decentraland Foundation. My pronouns are they, them, he, him, she, her, it's a long list, but remember that. Very excited to be here for this panel. Today we are talking about a range of topics, we're talking about the concept of bringing gender into the metaverse and what that means, we're talking about how we can empower trans artists, trans and non -binary artists in this space. We are joined today by a bunch of incredible trans and non -binary artists who I'm very excited to be sharing the stage with and really excited to hear from all of them, hear a little bit more about each of their practices, hear about what they're all doing this month as there are a range of activations happening on a range of platforms throughout the month, which I'm sure they

[0:53] can tell you a little bit more about. But yeah, with all of that being said, I think we should just kick it right off. So thank you for everybody who's joining us here. We're going to have two panels a week, all month, twice a week, every week. This is Pride Month, so let's try to celebrate as many queer, LGBTQIA +, non -binary voices as humanly possible. Follow all of these incredible people up on stage, look into the other people that we are going to have on all of our panels, and at least give them a follow, at least give them a like, check out what they're doing because, you know, all of these art practices are absolutely incredible. So with all of that being said, I've gassed them up enough, I would love you to hear from these incredible people themselves. First up on our list, we have Miss Laurel Charleston. Laurel, so happy to have you here today. You'd like to introduce yourself a little bit more,

[1:37] one of my favorite artists. Please tell us a little bit about yourself and your pronouns. Yeah. Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for having me today. My name is Laurel Charleston, my pronouns are she, her and they, them. I am based in Brooklyn, New York, and my medium that I work with is actually makeup. I've been a makeup artist for about six years, even though I kind of didn't start that way. My whole life, I wanted to be a musician and I wanted to be an orchestra conductor, so I learned my instrument of choice, which was the French horn, like the queers instrument. I studied that. I went to college on it when I was in college. I studied orchestra conducting and I was already popping off. I was going to, I was conducting opera at like an international music festival in Miami, and then I was conducting at Cincinnati. Then when it came to go to grad school, I said, great, I'm going to be an out trans person applying for

[2:26] grad school. I did that, basically got shut down immediately, was not allowed to enter any of these grad programs, identifying as a non -binary, they, them individual. Then I moved to New York and I just had no choice but to pursue makeup work. I was working at a makeup counter and over the last five years, that's turned into a whole career. And now I can completely be myself and explore different facets of who I am and my identity through my work. And now I'm happy to say I support myself as a full -time artist now, as that makeup artist here in New York City. Period. Fabulous. Love, love, love your story. I want to delve into so many elements there a little bit more in this conversation. But before we do, let's continue the introduction. So happy to have you here, Miss Laurel Charleston. Up next, we have Klara.

[3:16] Klara, Klara, I hope I'm not pronouncing it in some, you know, extravagant means. You know, I'm kind of cool with either. I used to hate Klara, but I kind of like it now. I don't know. It's like very. She'll take it. She'll take it. Very happy to have you here today. Another incredible NFT artist with a very vast practice. We'd love to hear a little bit more about you from your own voice. If you want to start with your pronouns, we'd love to hear a little bit more about you. Klara, Klara, Miss Klara. Sure. So my name is Klara Vollstaedt. My pronouns are she, her. And I guess my practice has kind of shifted a lot over the last few years. I kind of come from a painting background is what I went to school for. So I went to Alberta University of the Arts and then I ended up dropping out this last year to pursue 3D artwork full time through NFTs. And I really shifted into 3D art just because it's

[4:10] like it works more with my brain, kind of the tech aspect of it. And then also it allows a lot of like different possibilities for like generative work and then also different ways to experience it via like walking around in the metaverse or something like that. I've been full time NFTs for a little over a year and yeah, it's been really, really amazing, of course. And I've got to meet so many cool people doing it, so. Fabulous. Being a full time artist is a feat in and of itself. So we have to just celebrate that fact for all of these incredible people on stage. Thank you so much for joining us. Excited to delve in a little bit more to your practice and your point of view in this conversation. Mother Teresa, when I read your Instagram name, I said Ms. Thirsta. And you know what, I think that that counts too, but very happy to have you here. Somebody who I recently came upon through some of these

[4:58] other incredible people on stage. Really love your work. Very excited to see you breaking into this NFT space. And yeah, we'd love to hear a little bit about yourself. If you want to open up with your pronouns. I use she they pronouns. My name is Mother Teresa or Teresa. And I live in Brooklyn, New York. I am a photographer. I got into drag, which is actually how the name Mother Teresa came about, because it is, in fact, my drag name that I just kind of moved into using as my artist handle and take photos. Been taking photos for years since I was like 13, honestly. And I produce a show in Brooklyn called Whole Picks. If you're ever in Brooklyn and want a good carry, then come on down.

[5:50] I bring this show to other places like churches and community gardens as a means to fundraise, have like a fundraise show, essentially. And. Is that about it? I don't know. I like long walks on the beach. Corn dogs and the first time someone introduced me on stage, they said, murder, Teresa, because they also didn't know what the fuck that name was. Amazing, amazing. So much I want to dive in there, especially the concept of taking up and creating queer spaces and what that means in this virtual world as well. So fabulously, you're running a regular space in the real world. So very excited about that. Last but certainly not least, we have the icon herself, Ms. SamJ. How are you doing today?

[6:42] Another one of my favorite NFT artists would love to hear a little bit more from you yourself about your practice. You want to open up with your pronouns and tell us a little bit more about yourself. Yeah, hi, thanks for having me. My name is SamJ. I use they them pronouns. My background is really more graphic design. That's what I studied in art school. And I graduated pretty much directly into Covid and I had a little bit of history with crypto. So while I was sort of freelancing and just working on social media, I was seeing NFTs pop up. And because I already understood really what blockchain technology was, it was really easy for me to like immediately click with it and jump in and dive in. So I was the first drag queen or drag artist in NFTs and on SuperRare. And I've been the first of many things since then.

[7:36] But initially I was doing performance and video work and some animation. But now I've moved more into VR and animated VR installations. And I just do a lot of different types of work that mostly focus around my own personal expression and experiences as a trans individual. Fabulous. We love an interdisciplinary queen. And you embody that, absolutely. So happy to have all of us here together in a conversation. You know, a lot of the conversations that I've seen not to throw shade at all, because I think it's really amazing that we see so much more representation in the community this month from a lot of different companies. But a lot of the conversations I've seen still do feel a little tokenizee in terms of not in the crypto way, but in terms of, you know, they'll bring one trans or one non -binary artist on a stage of typically, you know, a bunch of straight white men and that's the conversation. And, you know, this this panel,

[8:32] but also all of the panels that we're doing here, you know, we wanted to open up conversations, intersectional conversations with members of the communities that are speaking about those things. So I'm hosting this panel specifically because I identify as non -binary. We have other panels, you know, we have one specifically around African artists living and working in Africa, queer LGBTQIA+ artists living and working in Africa, what that means. I'm not moderating that panel because I don't live in Africa. Similarly, you know, we also have a BIPOC brunch. That panel is also not being moderated by me. It's being moderated by FoodMasku. And it's bringing in a bunch of incredible BIPOC artists who, for this for the purpose of this conversation, don't actually identify as trans, but very excited to be able to bring so many trans and non -binary voices together on one stage to have this talk. So just wanted to initiate with that.

[9:19] Really excited to dive in a little bit and talk about all of your practices. So I think the first thing that I would like to do is open this up with a little bit of a general question. As you saw with the title of this talk, we're talking about what it means to bring queer narratives into virtual space, bring queer people into virtual spaces and what that entails. So maybe going in reverse order, as I see Miss Laurel has dropped off for a minute. I'm sure she'll be back in a second. Sam, SamJ, do you have any thoughts on what it's meant to go maybe from a more traditional practice into this more 3D practice? I know your work revolves a lot around the metaverse and what it means to be able to experience something in virtual space, whether on a website or in a metaverse space. How has that process been for you from originally, you know, taking photos and videos of yourself and then taking that identity, you know, your identity and

[10:10] bringing that into three dimensionality in virtual space? It's been really interesting. Like, I know it's kind of a meme to be like, oh, you know, like doll check in, doll behavior, blah, blah, blah. But I really do honestly view myself as like a paper doll. Like even the way I get tattooed to the hairstyles that I have and the clothes that I wear, the art that I make, it's all just like pure self expression through the way that I exist in the real world and also in the metaverse. And I think it's really interesting to explore the idea and the freedom that comes with digital expression because of the lack of permanence or in some cases with blockchain total permanence. And I actually just watched a whole documentary about VRChat and how the impermanence of character models and like the experiences that people have in VRChat then end up like manifesting your gender into the real world and also give you a safe space to explore that.

[11:13] So that's actually something I'm really interested in now, like how you know, you have more freedom and spaces to explore your gender in a more accepting and sort of just I don't know how to explain it, but like less judgmental space, given that it's not like true society, but it's still very much a reflection of society. And then how if you're, you know, let's say role playing as an anime girl and you're identifying as a heterosexual cisgender boy, how that will then affect your gender in the real world? Because I do believe that the way that you, you know, express yourself and view your body does affect the way that you then identify through your gender. And if you identify as an anime girl in your digital body, I'm very curious to see how that affects your your physical self and also the other way around.

[12:11] Absolutely. And I think that's something that we've all experienced, you know, in the recent past is taking, you know, these idealized versions of ourselves and considering what that means. And that's something that a lot of us have explored, you know, in the realm of, you know, video games or earlier virtual spaces that weren't on chain for quite some time, you know, the IMVUs or the real worlds. I mean, you're trying to play as a different gender in a virtual space. But I think now we have a lot more control over that. You know, it's not predefined categories that we're choosing. It's the idea that we can create for ourselves what we would like to see. And I think that's actually really empowering for a lot of people, especially when they're coming to terms, you know, with gender identities. And, you know, it it removes a lot of the pressure, I think, in terms of, you know, if you have categories

[12:51] that you have to choose from versus, you know, kind of an open door where you can you can pick from scratch. You know, if you're creating a 3D model, you're starting from complete scratch. What this thing looks like, what you look like. And I think that's really exciting. Bringing it around, Mother Teresa, it sounds like you like myself. You know, I definitely play with gender. I've done drag in the past. SamJ has done drag as well. But now also, you know, gender identity goes beyond that, right? It goes beyond the performance. It goes beyond what we do on stage. So I would love to hear from your perspective how, you know, sharing gender representations in physical space might have been different for you versus now, you know, in the space bringing, you know, the realm of your identity into virtual space. So I'm curious what that's been like for you. I don't see a difference, honestly, between like how

[13:43] loud I am in real life, going side by side with how loud I am like on the Internet. It's honestly the same exact thing, which I guess is like really weird because I've never actually like voiced or admitted that. But I am just as a psychopath in real life. But I feel like it has been a really easy time for me to be unapologetic and loud and the tranimal that I've always wanted to be, honestly. And I feel like I wouldn't be there with I wouldn't be like here in my own body saying this, like without honestly the Internet. Amen.

[14:32] Amen. Do you want to expand on that? Because I think, you know, in our in our opening conversation, one of the things we talked about, yes, we're talking about blockchain here. We're talking about entities and we're talking about the metaverse. But essentially what we're talking about here is virtual space. And for many of us, growing up, what that meant is chat rooms, forums, you know, early video chat on really sketchy God knows what sites. But, you know, I think that what we've discussed in some of these conversations is for many of us or for most of us, the first conversations we had with other queer people openly were in virtual space. For sure. I mean, down to I remember like literally the only source of queer entertainment that I had when I was younger was on YouTube. So I just had like this whole list of subscriptions that I made that I was just like only watching faggots and and like Gigi Gorgeous.

[15:26] Like, yes, literally like before like Gigi Gorgeous like had even transitioned, I was like literally obsessed. I was like, this twink is it for me. This is all I need. I feel like if it wasn't for platforms like YouTube, I honestly, I wouldn't see like the options that I had to be a fucking human. Like I just I really don't see like I wouldn't have ever seen it where I was like growing up. You know what I mean? It was like it just had to be like, oh, I saw this on the Internet. And now I know that I'm into 42 year old bears. You know what I mean? Like that's it's the Internet. You got to see it to believe it. I mean, amen. Absolutely. And I mean, for sure, I totally remember the early Gigi Gorgeous days.

[16:16] I remember Matthew Lush. I remember some of these, you know, extreme examples just in in the face of everything else on YouTube. In the face of complete stark contrast. Do you remember William Sledd? Yes. OK, because not a lot of people remember this bitch. But like she would start out every video with, hey, bitches. And she like always had like the W like on the wall in the back. I was obsessed. My brother would literally make fun of me because I was watching his videos like too hard. Michael Buckley. I remember I watched Michael Buckley on a daily basis. Now I know now I know Michael. Hi, Michael. He's lovely. He's a life coach now, as you can imagine. But yeah, I mean, these these modes of representation, I think, are extremely important. But now when you can consider that these, you know, avenues are becoming more immersive and it's not just a video that we're watching anymore.

[17:07] You know, people are able to see three dimensional characters come to virtual life. And I keep going back to it, but I still think the ability beyond an avatar builder, the won't go close there, beyond an avatar builder, you know, the ability to create your own identity from scratch is really, really exciting. And to be able to see how other people have done that in virtual space now and be able to take references from those. Anyway, we're going to dive into all of these points a little bit further. Klara, I want to make sure that we get to you. Same question. Curious on how this idea of virtual space plays into your work. Obviously, you transition from traditional art to three dimensional to the three dimensional realm to creating with, you know, 3D apps and curious how that's maybe played in terms of your gender identity over the past, you know, over your career.

[17:56] Um, I'd say it's actually pretty funny because my my transition into 3D art kind of came right around the same time that I was transitioning in real life. So it's been like really weird because I like associate my painting so hard with like transition now, too. So it's just kind of funny that you put it like that. But yeah, I'd say that 3D art and like the metaverse type stuff, like, I mean, we've already like, what can I say beyond what Sam and Mother Teresa have said, right? Like, I agree. Poorly. I think like allowing people to like freely express themselves is incredibly empowering, right? And I'd say even when I was younger, for sure, like having the ability to like say like I played the World of Warcraft and just like I always played like female characters, right?

[18:49] And I never really thought much of it, you know, like, I think when you're younger, you think like, oh, I'll play female characters because they're pretty and stuff or whatever, like, because they're hot, you know, and like, like, I mean, it all makes sense now. But but, um, yeah, I think having the ability to like really express yourself kind of like free from judgment of doing it like in real life is a huge reason why. I was able to come out so publicly and loudly. A lot of my super early transition, I remember coming out in like a really big way publicly online as well after I've kind of gotten my bearing just like what I actually wanted to like what my goals were. And I remember all through a lot of my early transition, a lot of it was about being online and being public about it because I come from like such a conservative city within Canada.

[19:43] That it felt like I had to give a voice to it helped like myself in order to like be more public and like, you know, allow the world to accept me as as well as like accepting myself. So at the end, I definitely like enabled that. And then I think my three yard kind of goes hand in hand with that. A lot of it's about like relationships and and like like gender and like very like internal visceral feelings. And yeah, much like my art ship it over, I think, is like my body was shifting over as well. And also my art allowed me to pay for all of this, too, which is kind of like a full circle thing. But yeah, that's a lot of what I have to say about that. Now, that's huge. And talk about, you know, self empowerment, the ability to create authentically and have that be able to pay for, you know, the surgeries or procedures required to live your authentic self.

[20:37] I think that's the most empowering thing one can have, you know, in terms of a career. So I think that's fabulous. So thank you so much for sharing that with us. Really excited to delve deeper. And yeah, what you mentioned with video games as well, I think that that's totally, you know, a shared, a shared, you know, memory point for many queer people, you know, choosing or having that having the option to choose a different character and explore a different identity and almost just escape one's, you know, current identity if it wasn't something that was authentic, you know, for a period of time. And I think that's really exciting for people. And I'm sure that's something that a lot of both young and old queer people can can relate to, to some degree, whether it even be like pre -internet, you know, watching movies or escaping to the movie theater for a period of time to get out of their, you know,

[21:19] current life. I think this is something that we do through media. And it's it's it's important. Speaking of, I did not forget about you. I want to ask the same question to Ms. Laurel Charleston, specifically around the context of the show that you're curating this month, because for anybody who's not aware, Laurel is curating a fabulous show for SuperRare called SuperTrans, featuring a bunch of incredible queer artists, I believe. Everybody on this call, if I don't want to I don't want to single anybody out. But apart from one, sorry. There we go. I did it. But, you know, Laurel's incredible. Laurel's artworks incredible. But beyond that, Laurel has done so much from my perspective over the past few months, creating space for the community in virtual space online, on Twitter Spaces. Through exhibitions like this.

[22:07] So I want to pass the same question over to you, Laurel, about how can we and what do you think about, you know, the importance of creating queer spaces online? But also love to ask it within the context of all the amazing work that you're doing. And if you have anything you want to plug, I mean, please feel free because it's happening now. Thank you. Thank you so much. First of all, yeah, I just think the most important thing we can do to empower communities is to not like feature them, not to like do like like you said, like do like feature one person really make you feel tokenizing. Also, I've had so many offers and I posted this on Twitter and I had so many other queer people and trans people comment, come into my DM saying they experience the exact same thing where we see these large organizations and they want to do something for pride. So they reach out to trans artists, they reach out to

[22:53] queer artists and said, hey, donate your work so we can sell it and give it to charity. And that's not it. Like, that is not it at all. If you want to empower communities, fund them, give them resources, put stuff in their pocket, get like allies to donate their work. Like, we shouldn't be asking people of this of these communities that you claim to be fundraising for to give their labor and their resources for free. The best thing you can do to empower communities is to give them resources. For example, the fact that I was even brought on to SuperRare and then approached to be a curator absolutely blew my mind. I am aware this is and was a once in a lifetime opportunity. And as soon as I was approached with the offer of my heart, my mind and soul immediately went to empowering my community. How can I get as many trans and non -binary and gender nonconforming people on this app as much as possible?

[23:44] I was like, listen, how many people can we have? They said 12, 12, great. Reach out to 12 trans non -binary and gender nonconforming artists from around the world. Unfortunately, one was not because outside reasons was not able to fulfill the commitment. So we have 11 incredible artists here with us in SuperTrans. The digital feature is now live. All auctions are live, available for purchase and to meet the reserve. And the physical gallery goes up this Thursday, the 9th and SuperRare's gallery. So that was absolutely incredible. But what I had to circle back to what I said at the beginning is that like we need to give these communities resources and we need to physically and financially empower them. So being able to even just with with this one opportunity of SuperTrans, like being able to bring on two trans artists from Brazil, they're already empowering their local community.

[24:37] They have weekly meetings with trans and non -binary Brazilian NFT artists. And now that they're on SuperRare, they're going to be using those resources that they get through their art and distributing and empowering their communities, which I think is so important. So yes, by trans art, by queer art, by gender non -conforming art, by non -binary art and support art for the sake of art and for the sake of these artists. Like, I mean, it's crazy, right? Like we live, we're experiencing this whole influx of digital art and digital art gets value because we say it has. And right now, PFP projects have so much value because we're just deciding that it does. But if we switched that narrative and switched that focus even the tiniest bit on artists and on one of one artists from marginalized communities, we can empower so many more people throughout this world.

[25:27] So I mean, I'm just one little speck on this giant blue planet and this vast nothingness we call the universe. And I am trying to do this myself, but we can all do this and also do it outside of Pride Month. That would be literally sickening. So that's also my next thing, right? To make sure that we leave this month with energy to keep going and to keep supporting and providing resources to these communities. Amen. To absolutely everything that you said, a woman. I wanna touch on one thing specifically as well, which I brought up before, but I think that when, when we're talking about education or providing resources, I think that it's really key that it's not, again, it's not performative because if you're inviting one trans person or one non -binary person or one gender non -conforming person onto a Twitter space to speak for you and you're asking them a range of questions, that's not you going and doing your research.

[26:25] That's you almost projecting that necessity or that need on an already marginalized person. So I feel like the mentality needs to shift from one of inclusion to one of support. Do we need to be included? Yes, but more so, as you mentioned, queer communities, trans communities, non -binary communities are marginalized and need financial and literal support. If you can be a gate opener or if you can financially support a queer individual, especially a queer artist this month, that is something that you should do if you have the means to do so. And I think that's a really important message to be sharing this conversation. We should not necessarily be the ones, the sole ones to be sharing that message over the course of this month, but I also think it's important that that's where our minds are at collectively as a group of people right now when we're having this conversation.

[27:14] We're not just thinking about bigging ourselves up or how can we make the most money possible. I think that the immediate mindset of a majority, obviously there's outliers, but a majority of the queer community, of the LGBTQIA+ community is support. And it's how do we support our media surroundings? I mean, look at any city. I mean, I'm here in Toronto, Klara, fellow Canadian, and we have centers around support. If you are an at -risk teen and you don't know where to go, there are places for you to go. And those centers require money. They require funds. And so if you're considering, to bring up Laurel's example again, because I think it's one that I see quite a bit, if you're fundraising, or if you're trying to raise money through the work of trans or queer or gay or whatever, artists, try flipping that on its head and see how can you raise money through your immediate community to support

[28:08] ecosystems that are relevant for queer artists. And I think that that's just a fundamental shift that we hopefully can make. And Laurel, I'm hoping that you have a follow -up on this, but I'm just gonna push it back to the whole group. But one thing I always think is important to mention anytime we have a conversation here for Pride Month, because it's on the last thing that you mentioned as well. Pride is a protest. It started as a protest, it's a protest today. If we haven't made some kind of headway every year over the course of Pride Month, it was not productive. Because as Laurel said, people are supporting trans artists, non -binary artists, queer artists over the course of June, but what are we doing the rest of the year? So if we can actually push things forward and we can make even a small amount, even 1 % change every year. In 100 years, we'll make 100 % of change. So we've done a lot.

[28:51] I mean, obviously the community has gone a long way, especially in urban centers. If you look at Toronto, New York, LA, Paris, there's major headway. But that represents a very small percentage of the world. So those of us who are able to be on this call, we represent still a privileged few within the minority. But yeah, I mean, it's important to listen to us this month. So I hope that everybody who's taking time to listen to this conversation takes even one thing away from it. So anyway, I don't wanna take too much time away from this conversation because I wanna go back to it, but I just wanted to really echo that for anybody who is listening right now. Laurel, anything you wanna add or should I move on to the next prompt? Just quickly, with these organizations specifically that are reaching out to queer and trans people asking for their art to be donated under the guise of charity, just to donate to a multi -million dollar charity

[29:40] organization that gets plenty of help. Or an art fund. Do you know the banks that are raising funds of art by donation? It's like, well, what's that doing? Yeah, it's not only are you trying to devalue the work of those trans and queer people by getting it for free. You're also just using it for your own benefit. You are trying to make your organization look good by getting someone else's art and selling it and saying, look what we're doing for charity, when in reality, you're devaluing that queer trans person's art who's an independent artist, literally just trying to support themselves. And it's not actually doing what you're positioning it to do. So, you know, and it's a really unfortunate reality that we live in. However, straight cis people listen to straight cis people a lot more than trans people.

[30:28] So if it's only trans people saying support trans people, unfortunately, time and time again, as we've seen historically, it's going to fall in deaf ears. I have yet to see really any allies with large platforms in Web3 speak out and say support trans people this whole month. So I would like to see more people with large platforms to speak up and to say, we need to support a trans community to visually put their money where their mouth is. And unfortunately it keeps falling on the backs of our own community. So I would love to see some of these community leaders put their money where their mouth is, put those little, put your fingertips on that keyboard and type up a fierce tweet. I would love to see it. Absolutely. And I mean, hopefully also what I hope from this, you know, Decentraland is a lovely platform as is SuperRare, you know, these are some of the leaders in the space. So I hope that, you know, these types of

[31:17] groups can act as stewards to show what we should be doing. Because, you know, even last year, many of these organizations did not have proper representation for the metaverse. I mean, one of the things I like to mention in these talks is Decentraland has actually had a pride in the metaverse for I think three or four years now. That's something that's not really discussed, but even if it's not really discussed, even the intention to create space beyond just, you know, this kind of pink washing mentality of what should a company do during pride, I think it's really empowering. So I hope that more companies will listen to this, more companies and more, as you said, influential people in the Web3 space. Because we're in Web3, we can and we should be doing things differently than what we were doing before. And speaking of, as somebody who's made a literal transition both in life and in Web2 to Web3,

[32:03] Klara, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this, especially around the realm of creating spaces where we feel comfortable in this virtual realm. So I'd love to hear from your perspective in terms of your creation, what you've done and how you've created spaces virtually where you wanna spend time in. That's a big question. I think a lot of it does revolve around getting support from outside of our communities, right? I think that the fact that 90 % of all of our art has all sold to other trans people or other queer people, just in general, was kind of insane to me. I think that trans people and queer people have so much to add to the conversation.

[32:53] We are so in tune with our emotional intelligence. We have a lot to say, whereas I think the market, the more widespread NFT market has pretty much only an appetite for visual aesthetics in a lot of ways. That seems to be a lot of what really moves is just shit that looks good and it's the five second, oh, that's beautiful, it's gonna be worth 20, 30, 40. There are exceptions, of course, but it seems like a lot. And 90 % of the time it's made by cishet dudes who just wanna make cool shit and then they're valued 100 times higher than trans people talking about really deep topics. And I think that's just gonna take maturation of the market. I think it's gonna take curators setting in and I think it's gonna take actual pacemakers who aren't bros in private jets talking about art or talking about NFTs.

[33:50] And I think that's just gonna take time because a lot of the trad art world hasn't really adopted NFTs. And I think it's gonna really take that to push things into allowing more queer and trans people to really be elevated to that certain extent. And I think it's not gonna come from venture capitalists or the more economic side, but yeah, the cultural side, right? And that's just gonna take time in general and it's gonna take a more widespread acceptance of it. And I think what we're doing now with these spaces and with SuperTrans and with other spaces like that throughout the year, as long as we're being supported and showing that art can be elevated and not just the same five people who we all know who get put in the Sotheby's and the Christie's auction makes it all about the money, right?

[34:41] And I think the association between NFTs and the same five bros who've made five billion dollars in the last two years is really, really strong. And I think once we break out of that, then we'll start to see communities really being uplifted. But yeah, it's gonna take time, right? I think we're like forerunners right now in a lot of ways. And I think mainstream acceptance is just gonna be like a matter of time because digital art is so prevalent and not just in the way of like, sorry, I'm not on a little rant now, but one of the craziest things that I saw, I went on a podcast recently and I went with, it was with Gaby Road. They're like a commentator for whatever, Buzzfeed, all that shit.

[35:29] And we talked about, I was talking about the kind of people who are buying NFTs and somebody in the comment and just like being like, okay, like a lot of people are just buying out of an investment thing that involves whatever, same kind of thing with the trad art world. But a lot of the comments were like, who, like, why don't you get somebody to, like, why don't you get somebody to commission you to make money instead of like using NFTs? And it's like, who the fuck's gonna commission my art? You know what I mean? Like, that's not something that people like want to just have on their screen, right? Like my art is so personal and it's all about me. Like, who the fuck's gonna like pay me to like receive the JTAG, you know? It's so, it's so bizarre and out there. Like maybe some art, like if you're making, you know, like certain things, whatever character drawings, things like that, then sure, maybe there's a

[36:20] market for that. But I think once the kind of more masses realize that it's more about the art than just like making shitloads of money that it's gonna start to come around. Well, you're not gonna ask, like, you wouldn't have asked Picasso to commission, you know, in artwork necessarily. Picasso's gonna Picasso. Yeah, I just think like the nature of our artwork, like look at Sam's art, right? In a lot of ways, it's like, it's so inherently digital that how could it be a commission -based work or how could they? Also personal. I don't wanna speak for you Sam, but it's just my interpretation of it. Like, how could you take, say, one of their like completely virtual pieces and then be like, yeah, I wanna like commission that outside of NFTs, like it just doesn't make sense, you know? There's no logical way that that would work, so.

[37:11] No, absolutely. And I think that, you know, one thing you touched on, it's said a lot, but, you know, we're still very early, obviously, within this space. But I think if you look at this within the context of art history, I think we saw a similar thing happen, you know, in the traditional art world, as you touched upon, from like, let's say the 60s to 90s in terms of even having gay or queer imagery brought into the art world. But even then, you know, it's all through some kind of a lens. I mean, yes, Robert Mapplethorpe, but more so in the mainstream eye, like Cindy Thurman, sorry, more so in the mainstream eye, like Cindy Sherman, you know, assist white women taking pictures of black, trans, queer individuals in New York, and profiting from them. And yes, that is representation, but you know, that was kind of how the art world saw representation, you know, 10, 20, 30 years ago. So I think we have come, yes, we have come a long way

[37:57] from there now, but now we still have to go the extra mile of, you know, we're having these conversations on how we navigate virtual space. And the artworks, I think, of everybody here, you know, in some way reflect each of your own lived experiences whether they be in tangible physical space or tangible virtual space, or both. But a lot of people haven't wrapped their heads around that yet. And I think that that is really the importance of conversations like this. You know, I hope there are a lot of cis people watching, you know, straight people watching, but also I think specifically as well, you know, the queer community as a whole. I think that I talk about, it's funny how I talk about this in different contexts, but the idea of competition, you know, when we're thinking about a group as small and as marginalized as the queer community almost sounds ironic, but we really do see a lot of, you know,

[38:46] people in the queer community, especially, you know, let's say gay cis men in contrast with, you know, trans women or non -binary people, you know, in conflict and in disagreement and, you know, when we should be championing each other and promoting each other and, you know, bringing each other up, especially this month, but all year, I see a lot of, you know, discourse started that I see as totally unnecessary from my perspective. So anyway, sorry to move that into a direction, but I really, really enjoyed what you said there and I totally agree in the larger arc. I actually wanna say that in the NFT space, I would say the general queer population that's here and participating is very inclusive and there's almost no queer discourse in the NFT space internally. And that's something that I really appreciate because when I first found the space, it was queer women, it was queer cisgender men that did support me and

[39:44] wanted to see my work grow and I'm very appreciative of that and those people are still around and those people are getting opportunities. And I definitely think that like the general tribalism attitude in the NFT space is pretty fierce and it, I don't know, I think there's just generally a, I mean, most of the queer people, I would say there is a significant portion of that like queer tribe, I guess, that is trans. So it's very difficult to have that discourse compared to in the more global queer population, it's only a small percentage of the LGBTQ+ community that is actually trans or gender nonconforming. So then it's really easy to get outspoken or ignored or erased by cis white queer people.

[40:40] So, but also on the topic of what Klara was saying about commissions or the traditional art world or whatever, is that I really noticed about a year ago that in the traditional art world collectors really like to patron works from communities that they are just like not a part of but want to appreciate. So that's why you might see like an old rich white guy by a Basquiat because he just really appreciates the rawness of what that painting is meant to represent. Even though he identifies like that, there is an intrinsic like barrier between what this rich white guy who's buying this artwork experiences and what Basquiat is like channeling in this painting.

[41:29] And that requires a certain level of nuance and understanding and also education of what art is and can be and has been. And I think it will take time to see these speculative collectors grow to appreciate the nuance of the works and stories that we're creating and telling. But I really have seen a lot of these NFT collectors realizing that that is where the true value lies because people who started in the beginning of 2021, it's been a year and a half now. So they've bought art from these bros that are just playing into sci -fi aesthetics or they've bought profile picture projects and then a year later they're like, who the fuck even is that guy anymore? Like he doesn't make NFTs or this profile picture disappeared, like it's not here anymore.

[42:19] But the artists that are releasing a piece every month and spending their time really making personal projects, similar to what Klara said, like I've never done a commission, I won't ever do a commission and that's because the pieces that I make are based off of what I think is important to convey through the context of my work. And I'm not trying to make money, I'm trying to make art. And it all kind of plays together because you can't really, like the only way somebody could commission me is if they just give me a grant basically and say, I'll give you 50 ETH if you give me the final product, you have full creative freedom. But at what point is that not just me making an artwork and then selling it later? So I think from both sides of the NFT collectors, they just need to eventually learn more and understand what the art market and what these artists are making, just across the board, not just queer artists.

[43:16] And then also the people who don't understand yet from outside the art market, saying, oh, just do commissions or whatever, really just have a like, I see those comments and I just assume it's some 14 year old that saw a furry commission once and that's their understanding of the art market. So I don't even put any value behind those comments. And it like, I think I have discovered a lot of really, really, really smart and intelligent and genius people both on terms of those who are collecting artwork and those who are creating artwork, everybody here today, for example. And I think it will take time but I don't think it will be that long, honestly, because we've seen Klara just sold a piece as a part of SuperTrans. We're seeing Laurel's curation of SuperTrans be extremely well received, if not one of the most well received curations that SuperRare has done as official.

[44:08] Ever, ever, period. And I mean, yeah, like I'm doing fine. I just sold a piece back in April and just put out a piece earlier in May but for the most part, I'm sold out. I'm not struggling. And I've found a really, within 2022, a change in how collectors are moving in the space because also what Klara mentioned that, you know, 90 % of our artworks are kind of like supported by our queer peers and artists in the space. That's definitely true for the early part of my career on SuperRare. But honestly, in 2022, I think I sold like four pieces, five pieces, and all of them to cisgender straight men, all of them, every single one. And so it really is this point of just consistency and visibility and growth that we all need to have as a whole community.

[45:03] And I think if we just keep up doing what we're doing and creating opportunities for each other and supporting each other and looking out for each other that it will come a time when let's say, you know, SuperRare does reach out to Laurel to ask to curate something or, you know, these opportunities will come to us and we will prove our value beyond just the niche of queer artists. Yeah, absolutely. I also just wanna say, SamJ, I think that the fact that four of your pieces have been collected recently by straight men, I think that's actually a huge testament to how far we've come. A, as a community, but also you specifically as an artist because I think, you know, as we've been talking about in this conversation, there is this kind of like, you know, point of like this turning point, you know, where we see historically gay or queer or trans artists, you know, kind of hit public acceptance.

[45:52] I mean, look at Andy Warhol. I mean, nobody even considers Andy as, you know, a queer person, even though that is, you know, Andy literally has, you know, bodies of work in drag, but that's never really considered when you look at them as a public figure or it is, but, you know, it's kind of accepted within the context of art history. And I feel like you're very much moving towards us. And I think everybody in this call is working and moving towards us because I love what you said that you're not trying to make money, you're trying to make art. And ultimately, you know, I think that the most important thing that we can leave this conversation with is looking at and respecting trans and non -binary artists as artists and especially NF trans and non -binary NFT artists. Because another thing I just want to mention, because I do want to pass this to Laurel, because I'm sure Laurel has some thoughts on this.

[46:34] But when we look at, when you mentioned that the kind of immediate queer community in the NFT space does have a lot of trans and non -binary representation, I think that also speaks to how trans and non -binary people are inherently, you know, often a step ahead, at least in terms of tech, because as we've discussed in this conversation, we don't necessarily have immediate representation in our everyday lives. A lot of us don't have, you know, or at least when we were growing up, we didn't have trans and non -binary friends that we can talk to. So we found those people virtually and in virtual space. So inherently, it makes sense that we would be kind of, you know, first adopters of a lot of new tech, especially when that new tech kind of allows us to explore identity as a broader term in a virtual space. So I think, I just wanted to, you know, applaud everything that you said, but also, you know,

[47:18] contextualize, I think that a lot of this, you know, this first mover advantage and the reason that I think everybody on this call has careers in the NFT space is because, you know, we inherently as queer people, as trans people, as non -binary, gender, non -conforming people are a step ahead of the curve, at least in terms of technology. So we got that on him at least, which is nice. Speaking of, I do wanna pass this again to Laurel. Laurel, I know you've done so much work over the past month. I totally echo SamJ's point. I mean, I've seen such incredible feedback over the past few weeks around SuperTrans, but also considering your work and just like the work you've done helping and supporting bring, you know, artists into these virtual spaces, what does, you know, going back to this idea of, you know, safe space in the metaverse, what does that look like for you? And, you know, maybe just to break it down for people,

[48:04] what are some things that other people can do to, you know, help facilitate and help create these, you know, safe spaces for trans queer and non -binary people when they're, you know, making drops such as yours? Yeah, I mean, a couple of things to touch on quickly, just before that question, about saying how like trans non -binary people have always been at the forefront of creation. I mean, always historically, if you look back just in American history alone, specifically contextualizing where I live, trans people have been constantly ahead of the game innovating. We wanna talk about NFTs. One of the artists from SuperTrans, Donia AKA LetsGlitchIt, literally is the creator of her whole genre of glitch art has been innovating, changing the game for years and is the mother of glitch art. And here she is, now she's finally on SuperRare. She has this platform to showcase her art to the whole

[48:55] world as she's been doing for years. But it's just, it's about noticing and giving these artists their flowers and these resources in their platform. For example, Tsushima is a non -binary, sickening nail artists who's redefining their craft, creating entire ceramic sculptures on the fingertips of their nails, which are constantly reflective of their own experience, of their own culture being an immigrant from China and having all parts of their identity on the tips of their nails and doing so in the NFT world, literally one of the first people in the entire world to do so. And it's of course, it's trans people, of course it's non -binary people who have always been left to their own devices and left to express what they can, they have to express through their art and through their craft. Even Mother Teresa, for example, her art is always so visually striking, so colorful, you look at it and you know there's something so intense

[49:50] and unique about it that you can't find anywhere else, anywhere else in the world. And also, we always hear this question about utility and art having utility. My love, you wanna talk about utility? Buy art from a trans person who, listen, exactly Sam said, there are people that, coming to this game, they push PFP projects and they leave. These trans and non -binary people have a stake in the game because this is their life, right? And for example, Mother Teresa just released this sick name Divas Collection and 15 % of every single sale is going straight to a trans organization where they're gonna take care of the funds, they're gonna distribute it to help support and house and feed and give medical supplies to trans people. So if we wanna talk about utility, go to these communities and they have the utility waiting for you. And now, what was your actual question that you asked?

[50:40] I wanna step in real quick and say, first of all, that Divas Collection carries. I have one, so definitely go check it out. But also, even down to what crypto art is, how we view it today with the founders of crypto art back in 2017 being Dada Studio, is two queer women, one of them identifying as non -binary. So literally, the people who invented what everybody's doing today, like they spoke about what crypto art is and can be with Larva Labs and with Rare Pepe's at the Rare Fest in New York. And that was the foundation of what NFTs will become. And so it's really, really important that we don't erase that. And we do acknowledge that, you know, pretty much everything that everyone is doing right now is coming from these, you know, queer, trans, non -binary populations and innovations.

[51:30] Hey, Matt. Right. And now I remember your question, which is about safe spaces and creating community in Web3. It's the same thing, right? What is so... I mean, Web3 will always be a microcosm of society and what we actually deal with in the real world. Like we can't get away from that. However, Web3 does allow us to have communities that are former global. And me just being in Web3 and NFTs in the past eight months, I've developed a intensely closed community of artists and collectors from diverse experiences all around the world in a way I never had beforehand. Now I have Bessie's and the Netherlands and Canada and Nigeria and Brazil all over the world. And we're supporting each other, not just, you know, through chat, but in real ways that are impacting and changing lives.

[52:21] So you, I mean, come into this space and reach out, be, you know, communicative, connect with people. And I think you'll, especially as queer people and trans people and non -binary people, I think you'll always be surprised at how open people are and how willing people are to connect with other people in these spaces and just doing so. If you're able to do so visibly as a trans and queer person, first of all, that takes so much bravery even to do so in this Web3 world. But if you do do so, and if you are able to do so, I think you will be surprised with the community that you'll just come across and will come to you and you can connect with in Web3. So well said, so well said. Love you and everything you stand for, Laurel. Thank you so much for that.

[53:08] I wanna make sure that we make space in this round for Mother Teresa, also included in this, you know, in the same conversation around creating safe space. I did wanna touch on at least once on how you create spaces IRL and also now you're bringing the Mother Teresa experience to Web3, to the NFT space through collections like the current one that SamJ and Laurel were just speaking about. So we'd love to hear from you how you personally made, maybe not the switch, but how you blur the lines between, you know, virtual events and physical events. Because as you said, a lot of the lines aren't blurred for you. Absolutely. I would like to start off with, I started producing the show in 2019 before the pandemic. And honestly, it just came extremely natural to me. I was already, I already had my foot in the door in terms of like local drag.

[54:02] And I was just kind of making my rounds. I ended up becoming close with the bar owner and they just like put me on basically. There was fully no money in the show. I was doing it because I was obsessed with producing a show that is like, basically a whole picks is like a two act show. There is no emceeing in between performers. So it's just one giant production with like a group number in the beginning and usually a group number at the end, which would require rehearsal. So basically I, at this point for free slash probably was in the negatives because I was literally paying for cars for performers to come to rehearsal or come to the gig. But once again, well worth it.

[54:53] It was just nice to bring people together out of drag and like literally coerce them into doing like really shitty, like eight step count, like dance moves. And after the pandemic, I ended up becoming close with another like venue bar. The show ended up becoming larger than what I could have ever fucking imagined. And I am here now. I'm literally about to produce a show for Pride, of course. And I have like four different people flying out from Texas, Chicago, LA, Georgia, which is like absolutely insane to me. And - I'm going, I'm there. Yes, you the fuck are. And it's just really interesting.

[55:41] I've been producing this event live for about a year now at this venue space and it's given me the tools and resources to fully pay out the girls correctly for the shows that they are giving. It also is a great venue space that allows me to put as many fucking chairs as I want down because babe, this is a show, okay? I don't want you standing up drunk, yelling about the three bedroom apartment you just gone in Greenpoint, babe. You need to sit the fuck down and hand me some fucking money. So that side by side, like I said, I was taking the show out to the last fundraiser show we did in real life was at a church in Chelsea. And we were able to raise, I think like 3 ,100 for the girls, which is a black translate organization.

[56:35] And then my, the next like project that I got into honestly, it like in the same time of wanting to produce a fundraiser show or sale or something. I became close with this organization called Queercare which is literally ran by one girl who is from South Florida. So we headed off immediately. But anyways, we kind of grew a relationship and I at the same time was making my way into the NFT space or whatever you want dipping into the NFT space. And I was like, I mean, you know, I know we talked about doing like a real live fundraiser show but there's so much money in the NFT space.

[57:24] And I was definitely like, I was like, if I, okay I came out with like one piece, it was a Genesis it was called public sex. I had all these different people, all these different walks of life in the NFT space, in non -NFT space people just kind of discussing about their experience or lack of with public sex and or cruising. The piece was a homage to cruising culture. So I came out with that. And then I was like, babe if you're gonna do a fucking collection like at least like, at least help the girls out. I mean, I, once again like this first piece that I came out with literally flew off the shelf thanks to Sam and Kate the Cursed. And yeah, I was like, we are doing it. We're doing the damn thing.

[58:13] I had this series, it's a 12 piece collection it's 35 millimeter images, it's called Divas and 15 % went to the Translider org. And we did a cute show in The Meeting Place and it was a great time, honestly I've only sold one piece still waiting on this as gender it's to sniff me out but it's fine, I'll wait. You know, we have, we have how many days left of pride Laurel? And so, you know, we're here, we're kicking honestly, the collection is really great. I'm so happy with it. It's really nice to look at a body of work that you produce and be like, fuck this shit's good. And it's good in others ways too.

[59:01] I mean, once again, giving back. I mean, when I know Ethereum is down and I'm ranting but we, when the collection actually came out Ethereum was kind of in a place where if all the pieces sold I was gonna be able to hand this 501c3 like a solid one Ethereum which at the time was cute. I don't know about now, but you know, it's fine, it's whatever. Amazing. It's all, honestly, for me, I saw like the possibilities in the NFT space and was like, I mean there's no reason why I can't be uplifting like others using my art. So that's kind of why I decided to go about it like that.

[59:52] Fabulous, love you, love what you're doing and love the you went from Brooklyn drag show to The Meeting Place. Shout out to Benny and so excited to see you killing it in the Web3 space. I wanna look at your work. I wanna look at all of your work and I'm conscious that we're running a little bit over time but I do wanna end with one point very intentionally. I would love to go through our stage one last time. If anybody has anything left they would like to say please do so, but more, please let us know where we can go buy your work. If anybody's listening right now who would like to buy from each of you incredible artists. Klara, do you wanna start? I'm pretty much sold out at the moment. But the easiest way to find what's going on with me is just Klara .art. It's my website, I keep it updated. I'm gonna have a newsletter pretty soon.

[1:00:41] So if you're one of those types if you like to get like little mail delivered into your inbox whenever I have something new up then sign up for that, that's coming soon. All my socials around there, all my pieces that I've come out with before in case you wanna scope. Yeah, Klara .art, everything you need. Also come to SuperTrans, come to SuperTrans. And you can hit her up for commissions at no. I'm taking commissions if you want like weird sculptures and VR to do nothing with and yeah, there you go. There you go, she's ready. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to join us today. Really appreciate you. Really appreciate it. I'm so excited to see how well you're doing in this space as well. It's incredible and love, love, love your work. Thank you so much. Mother Teresa, I know you just spoke but you're the next person in front of me on the screen.

[1:01:28] Where can people go right now if they wanna buy these incredible pieces of yours? You can go to, you can type your little cisgendered fingers on your little fucking keyboard to foundation .com. And when you type in that search bar, you're gonna type in divas by Mother Teresa. That is M -T -H -R -T -R -S -A. But also I am a, I'm a quality queen, you know. I mean, you can find me quite literally on every platform which is M -T -H -R -T -R -S -A. If I'm not barking about my unsold items on Twitter then I am on Instagram crying. So you can find me there. Work. So excited to look at your art more and love, love, love what you do. So thank you, thank, I'm gonna take that again. Thank you so much for joining us. Up next, Sam, SamJ.

[1:02:16] Do you have any pieces available or is she also sold out? I actually do have one piece available but I'm really kind of just not trying to sell it for, like it's just like a more of a statement piece. You know what I mean? But I'm on SuperRare, SuperRare .com slash SamJ. SamJ Studios on Twitter and Instagram. I'm pretty active on everything. Oh my gosh. A free show. Now I'm really going to whole pigs for real. But I have one piece up right now that I minted about how I initially got rejected from SuperRare. So I then recreated the email that I got saying I was rejected at about four feet tall on a canvas and then mounted it to like a really ornate vintage, like Venetian gold frame.

[1:03:09] And I created a rejection stamp inspired by the 1863 show Refusé de... Salon des Refusés, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of like camp, it's kind of funny but it's really just about how, you know, a lot of people get discouraged if you don't get one or two opportunities but you just have to really keep going and prove your worth and eventually people will come around and come to recognize you. And I'm actually very close with the SuperRare team. So they've done a lot of really great things for me and everybody here with like even Laurel and SuperTrans and everything. So it's really a great platform but I just kind of want, it's like a little love letter to my journey since joining the platform in 2020.

[1:04:00] And then all the way to selling my piece prior to this one which sold for 25 ETH which was like a very monumental sale for myself. So that's why it felt very like the just the right time to kind of create this piece about how I was initially rejected and then like climbed the ladder and made some friends along the way or whatever. She's come full circle. She's doing it on Twitter. Yeah, very full circle. Amazing, amazing. Love your work, SamJ. So happy to see you killing it. And if anybody wants to, if anybody wants to go check out SuperRare and get that very historic piece. I mean, hey. Yes, it's listed for 69 ETH which is you wanna have a moment on the blockchain. Like it'll be there in the transaction.

[1:04:49] Pride Month 2022, 69 ETH sale. SamJ, we're manifesting it. It's gonna happen. Exactly, talk about some cisgender fingers. Yeah, that's cheaper than a Bored Ape and it's more important. Exactly, yeah. Exactly, exactly. And I got some pretty impressive projects coming up to follow this. So I don't know, like 69 ETH sounds like a lot but I don't know if it's gonna go back down. We'll see. I think it's gonna go up but we're gonna find out. Thank you so much SamJ. Thanks for taking the time in joining us. I know different time zones in all of this but we make it work. So thank you again. Last but certainly not least, she's joined us, she's left us, she's back. Laurel, how are you? Thank you so much.

[1:05:35] And what are the places that we need to go right now to check out your work and to check out SuperTrans? Well, to check out SuperTrans, if you are in New York City, come by from the June 9th to June 15th SuperRare's Gallery. You're going to literally die the second you walk in seeing this amazing, incredible art on these massive screens. It's truly a dream come true. If you're in New York for NFT NYC, cannot release the news now but we are partnering with one of the largest financial institutions in America and our work is going to be on a billboard, a massive billboard in a certain square like area in New York City. I don't know what that could mean. I don't know what that could mean. But stay tuned. We're talking shapes. We're making shapes.

[1:06:21] Something, something to do with the square. Yes. But that's coming soon. That's coming soon. I could not be more proud of that. I currently have two works available. I was brought on SuperRare about four months ago and so honored that my Genesis sold to Coldie for three ETH and then ended up transferring it to non -binary icon there itself, SamJ. So SamJ has secured my SuperRare Genesis. I currently have two works available, enduring combustion and then I also have celestial perception and enduring combustion is a surrealist makeup work. Using my face as the canvas, I sculpt and carve out a array of multicolor fluorescent, vibrant flames that actually look as if it's painted on a two dimensional surface but because how I work with perspective and makeup for literally hours that work took about like eight and a half hours to produce just by myself standing in front of a mirror.

[1:07:18] Then I have celestial perception which is my first ever full body makeup work head to toe on the blockchain ever. It's currently available. That is the work that is featured in SuperTrans. It's a collaboration between myself and Shakespeare Huang, 3D as a designer. And that piece really for me is a reflection of my whole journey with makeup and why I kind of got started. Similar to Klara's journey with 3D art, makeup, my transition into makeup art really paralleled my transition in real life with transness and my identity. And I was always able to use makeup to get away from the gender I was so forcefully put in and kind of forced to live in for a majority of my life. So every time I could grab makeup and use makeup, I was always transported away from that. So this is the culmination of all of that.

[1:08:07] It's the master work of all of that. I've completely transferred myself head to toe every inch of my body in makeup and I am transformed into the alien goddess of my dreams. I worked with this amazing 3D designer, Shakespeare Huang, to create what that would be, what my magical alien throne would be and an entire universe that I can now live in forever on the blockchain. We love that. Manifest your surroundings. Manifesting. It's a new level of creation. We're making our dreams come true literally, virtually, but literally. So excited about that. I hope that everybody has a chance to check out your work, to check out SuperTrans, to check out Klara's work, SamJ's work, Mother Teresa's work. These are all incredible artists, but it does not end here. Please check out SuperTrans.

[1:08:55] Find out about so many more incredible trans artists and please join us again throughout this month for more conversations highlighting some of the people in the queer community to make this world of Web3 tick. I just wanna thank everybody who has joined us here again for taking time out of your busy schedules. I know this month is insane, so really appreciate all of you. And I also wanna say thank you to everybody who is joining us live in the Metaverse watching now or watching after the fact. If you made it to the end, we are here. We're still here. We're still kicking. So yeah, thank you all again for watching. We'll see you again this Friday, live back on the main stage. Thank you again to all our guests and we'll see you next time. Ciao.